# Is it okay for a business to refuse to sell to suspected hoarders? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286 "2018-10-21T15:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/41 "2018-10-23T20:04:04Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > There are handbags that go for $6k, and social groups within which such things are considered a necessity. The CEO’s wife probably spends $800 to $3k on her dress for the company Christmas party. And the shoes for that outfit could be $300 to $1k as well. > > I don’t personally get into all that, but I was raised to, and did well into my 20’s. It’s ridiculous, but not pathological. Yes, I know that rich people do that, but it appeared obvious from the OP that this is an average middle class person. So I was consider the clothing “needs” for someone making $60K. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/42 "2018-10-23T21:38:31Z")
> [@WernhamHogg](#): > > [Collecting is specifically exempted from hoarding behavior.](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hoarding-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356056) That’s refreshing to hear, given that I have no less than two and perhaps six or more collections, depending on how you define collections. And I definitely have space issues as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/43 "2018-10-23T22:09:37Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It is an intriguing OP. For the life of me, I can’t work out what the OP is selling to the hoarders. > > He feels that the buyers could use $120 worth of the product a week and not be hoarding. But they are buying $600 worth and hoarding the remainder. > > I can’t think of any consumable product that I would buy $120 worth of each and every week other than food. Uh, yeah, I wouldn’t have been able to solve this thought puzzle prior to getting into the industry either. The products are available in a broad range of prices. To take the shoe example, imagine that the shoes in question could be had for $75 or could be had for $2,500. And that they wore out after 1 to 6 months of daily use. So, there’s a pretty big range of sane expenditure, but unless you’re very affluent, $30,000 suggests you could be choosing cheaper freaking shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/44 "2018-10-23T22:17:11Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > He said he’s a retailer in the fashion industry, so I presume he is selling clothes or shoes. > > What I can’t figure out, is how he knows how much income his customers make 😕 We do pre-sales consultations. The customers sometimes share information related to their occupation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/45 "2018-10-23T22:23:12Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > There are handbags that go for $6k, and social groups within which such things are considered a necessity. The CEO’s wife probably spends $800 to $3k on her dress for the company Christmas party. And the shoes for that outfit could be $300 to $1k as well. > > I don’t personally get into all that, but I was raised to, and did well into my 20’s. It’s ridiculous, but not pathological. Right. The CEO or his wife isn’t the individual I’m talking about. I’ve got some customers who could buy the whole business and some of the manufacturers I buy from without having to think about it, but I’m fine with them having as much fashion as they want. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/46 "2018-10-23T22:28:13Z")
So is this ‘hoarder’ customer buying lots of clothing/shoes, or is he/she just buying a normal amount of merchandise but at the top-end price range? And what is a pre-sales consultant in the retail sector? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/47 "2018-10-23T22:38:28Z")
is it something that might be used as part of a uniform for a business? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/48 "2018-10-23T22:46:11Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > So is this ‘hoarder’ customer buying lots of clothing/shoes, or is he/she just buying a normal amount of merchandise but at the top-end price range? > > And what is a pre-sales consultant in the retail sector? The consumers that have caused me to consider this were buying a lot of merchandise total, and were buying everything from the $300 units up to the units that are above $1,000 per. I suppose a pre-sales consultation in retail consists of engaging with either a salesperson or customer service agent with questions about what to buy. I agree that it sounds weird to phrase it like that, and I have hopped around industries a few times, which may explain my phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/49 "2018-10-23T22:49:01Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > is it something that might be used as part of a uniform for a business? Yes, and we know the personal backgrounds of the consumers in question well enough to realize that they are not buying for a company. We have had movie studios buy from us, and they are generally pretty transparent as to who they are and what the units are being purchased for. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/50 "2018-10-23T23:01:15Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Yes, and we know the personal backgrounds of the consumers in question well enough to realize that they are not buying for a company. > > We have had movie studios buy from us, and they are generally pretty transparent as to who they are and what the units are being purchased for. Then my thought is someone offering a more “high touch” version of your service. Like they go to the customer and charge a markup or a service charge for alterations, something like that. I know a couple cops that have their uniform stuff modified a bit by a tailor to fit better. If someone had offered such a service where they came to the station and allowed us to try on and or request alterations when I was an EMT, most of us would have been all over it. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/51 "2018-10-23T23:58:42Z")
Perhaps the purchaser is being gifted substantial amounts of cash to spend on whatever they like? Why don’t you just ask him/her next time they come to your store? If they feel comfortable enough with you to divulge how much they earn, I’m sure they’d be comfortable explaining how the hell they can afford it! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/52 "2018-10-24T18:06:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I marveled at the idea that you could make money by buying stuff at retail prices and reselling it online. (This sometimes still goes on, particularly when the store sells only a limited quantity of goods but the Star Wars toys were widely available.) I can assure you, it’s going strong! > [@bump](#): > > Nah… one thing I remember from business school is that there’s inevitably a correction of some sort in the market. That’s what I though, too. > [@bump](#): > > I also started business school in August 2002- in the midst of the Dot-com bubble bursting, and the MBA curriculum was more or less centered around the “new economy”, which turned out to be a highly entertaining series of professors either grumping about how they knew it was BS all along, middle-of-the-road ones talking about what actually was happening/had just happened, and a very few true believers who were still convinced that the fundamental business theories had been fundamentally changed by the internet, and that what we were seeing was a transient blip. What I’m seeing (re: internet marketing and sales) makes me question everything I thought I knew about microeconomics. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/53 "2018-10-24T18:49:07Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > -for example you can’t refuse to sell to blacks. Sure you can. As long as it isn’t _because_ someone is a black person. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/54 "2018-10-24T19:24:33Z")
Is there any other reason you think they are a hoarder other than the amount they buy? Like, is their car stuffed with merchandise? I remember this guy who used to go to the Goodwill computer store and his van was packed to the roof with old computer junk that was all tossed together. I got the feeling he would spot “deals” in the store and buy them, but then not do anything with the stuff. His appearance was also somewhat shoddy, so it would be a reasonable assumption that he wasn’t well off financially. So in that case, there were many indications that he was probably a hoarder or had mental issues. Is there anything like that with your customer? How is her appearance? Does her car seem appropriate for her income level? Anything like that which would also indicate there were some mental problems? Is there any chance she’s taking the merchandise to another country? Like, if you’re in Texas, maybe she’s stocking her boutique across the border. I remember feeling bad for that Goodwill guy, but I wasn’t sure anything could be done. He looked like he enjoyed going shopping. Would it have been better for the clerks to refuse him? I’m not sure. It’d make him feel pretty bad even if it would be better from a financial sense. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/55 "2018-10-25T05:24:30Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Sure you can. As long as it isn’t _because_ someone is a black person. Or, as long as it isn’t a class that is /equivalent/ to black persons. You can not sell to barefoot people only if the class of barefoot people isn’t (only black people are barefoot, and every black person is barefoot). And then you can’t discriminate if the classes are functionally equivalent, even though they may not be identical. IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/56 "2018-10-25T13:37:36Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > The consumers that have caused me to consider this were buying a lot of merchandise total, and were buying everything from the $300 units up to the units that are above $1,000 per. Were they buying multiple identical copies of the same unit? Were they buying all the units in the same size, or in different sizes? Because that could differentiate between someone who is buying for their own use, and someone who is re-selling. It could also differentiate between someone who is “collecting” in some fashion, vs someone who is just buying compulsively. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/57 "2018-10-25T16:22:42Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > What I’m seeing (re: internet marketing and sales) makes me question everything I thought I knew about microeconomics. 😕 I don’t think that stuff really changes; my guess is that a platform like Amazon or Ebay (assuming that what you’re seeing is happening through a site like that) is causing information asymmetry in ways that prevent the normal mechanisms from taking hold. For example, on Amazon, I wouldn’t be surprised if the way to be successful is to somehow game the search engine and price, rather than you know, actually sell your product for what the market will actually bear. In other words, figure out how to game the site to make the consumer’s determination of what the market will bear very hard to do. I suspect that’s why it’s so damn hard to actually compare products on Amazon- people are trying to game it every way they can. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/58 "2018-10-25T19:58:39Z")
There have been several serious hoarders in my life. Their hoarding was upsetting to me, maybe because I’m a bit OCD. A couple of times I secretly threw some of their junk away, but it changed nothing, and if a hoarder realizes something is gone, they became upset and anxious. One hoarding friend was in the hospital with a serious illness. While there, she saved yogurt containers, plastic wrap, tuna cans, and other food-related stuff. She kept it all clean, but it quickly mounted up. Once while she was sleeping, I threw away a big stack of yogurt cups. As far as I know, she never realized, but it felt disrespectful, so I never did it again. (Incidentally, we were close friends for about ten years, and she never invited me into her house.) I try not to enable. For example, my handyman is a known hoarder. At one time, I would offer him choice of anything I was planning to donate to Goodwill. He always took _everything_, including stuff there was no way he could use. I no longer offer anything to hoarders. I came to the realization that nothing I (or pretty much anyone) can do will change a hoarder’s behavior. The best thing you can do is to mind your own business so as not to embarrass them or cause them anxiety. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/59 "2018-10-25T22:56:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t think that stuff really changes; my guess is that a platform like Amazon or Ebay (assuming that what you’re seeing is happening through a site like that) is causing information asymmetry in ways that prevent the normal mechanisms from taking hold. > > For example, on Amazon, I wouldn’t be surprised if the way to be successful is to somehow game the search engine and price, rather than you know, actually sell your product for what the market will actually bear. In other words, figure out how to game the site to make the consumer’s determination of what the market will bear very hard to do. I suspect that’s why it’s so damn hard to actually compare products on Amazon- people are trying to game it every way they can. This is pretending that “the market” is a separate entity from what’s being observed. If gaming the system is going on, then gaming the system is integral to the market. (Some might say gaming the system IS all there is to the market.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286/60 "2018-10-26T00:18:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Were they buying multiple identical copies of the same unit? Were they buying all the units in the same size, or in different sizes? Because that could differentiate between someone who is buying for their own use, and someone who is re-selling. It could also differentiate between someone who is “collecting” in some fashion, vs someone who is just buying compulsively. The customers in question don’t seem to ever buy more than one of the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-for-a-business-to-refuse-to-sell-to-suspected-hoarders/823286.md?page=4)