# Is it okay to encourage a child who chooses to be transexual? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021 "2009-05-19T22:55:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/121 "2009-05-20T10:04:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I notice that it also mentions he created them in his own image. So, tell me. Does God have a [hare lip](http://www.stichtingkidsurvivors.com/afbeeldingen/HarelipDilmerbeforeoperationjpg)? What about a [club foot](http://hdpodiatry.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/clubfoot.40172705.jpg)? How about [spina bifada](http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/uploaded_images/spina-755685.jpg)? > > These are all examples of ways humans can be born with bodies that don’t work the way God intended them to work. So why is it so impossible that a person can be born with the wrong body? And why is it wrong to try to correct that birth defect, the same way we try to correct any other birth defect? These are all results of mankind disobeying God and allowing the knowledge of sin into their lives. Genesis 1:27 happened before mankind sinned… so God created male and female in His image, and God saw that “they were good”. > [@](#): > > The parents of the child you’re so concerned about are Christians, and they seem to have no trouble accepting it. Are they not “real” Christians? I don’t know… I didn’t ask them. Just because you send your children to a Catholic school doesn’t mean you’re a Christian. > [@](#): > > I’m assuming that you are not attempting to argue that only medical conditions that are listed in the Bible are “real” medical conditions. I’m pretty sure the Bible doesn’t mention, say, diabetes. Does that mean that diabetics are living a lie? That they’re disease isn’t real? That instead of treating it, they should just live with it, because doing otherwise is against God’s plan? No? Then why should transgenderism be considered any different? What makes it so necessary to suffer this particular medical condition, when we are allowed to treat all of the other afflictions of this fallen world? Actually, the Bible mentions men whom are effeminate. It also mentions eunuchs who serve God… some eunuchs born that way, some choosing to become eunuchs. It also talks about homosexuality (OT and NT) quite a few times. There are plenty of things the Bible doesn’t mention that are truths. The Bible isn’t a book filled with every truth under the sun… however, all things in the Bible are truth… and the Bible says in the Proverbs “there is no new thing under the sun”… meaning the things we deal with today (the issues of life we deal with… not things like technologies) were things people dealt with back then. The people in the days of old weren’t stupid primitives. Mankind hasn’t been progressing since Adam and Eve… mankind has been digressing. People are getting more and more stupid with each and every passing day… quite recently thanks to the printing press and the television and high speed internet… mankind is just coming up with new and improved and more clever excuses to embrace it’s ever increasing stupidity… one of the most popular scapegoats… “scientific fact”. > [@](#): > > If they are a more perfect creation than men, why does the Bible make such a point of how women are meant to be subservient to men? If they’re superior, shouldn’t it be men who are subservient? Sounds to me a bit like you’re putting your feelings about women above God’s authority. Guess that only applies when it’s things you personally dislike, eh? Being perfect doesn’t make something superior. The Secret of Monkey Island was the perfect point and click adventure game… however, Escape from Monkey Island was far superior in graphics, music and game play interface… but it wasn’t the perfect point and click adventure game. Woman was equal to man until the day woman and man sinned. The woman was deceived by the serpent whilst the man willing ate of the fruit to share his love’s fate… however, woman has always been the perfect partner for a man. Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and **he will rule over you**.” I don’t believe this makes woman any less equal to man and it certainly doesn’t mean woman is man’s slave and has to bend over backwards for a man… it just means woman is easily deceived and not fit to rule over man. Because Adam willingly ate the fruit so Eve wouldn’t suffer alone, man was granted rule over the woman because his action was willingly out of love and compassion… not because he was deceived. He knew he was getting himself into some crazy poop… Eve ate of the fruit because she desired to be as the gods… all knowing. Knowledge is power. Eve wanted power. Adam didn’t want to be separated from his wife. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/122 "2009-05-20T10:12:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Larry Gene Ashbrook may have been anti-Baptist but anyone know what his own religion was? A dollar says he wasn’t Jewish… Yeah, I tried to look into it but couldn’t penetrate the ‘_OMG Christians are under attack_’ media spin to find any actual info. **Lacunae Quell** still hasn’t provided a single example of a christian child being “_murdered by other children who are Anti-Christ_” as he put it. For all we know, Larry Ashbrook killed those people because _they weren’t christian enough_. Since this is the standard method by which christains handle doctrinal disagreements, I’d say it’s far more likely than him being “Anti-Christ”. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/123 "2009-05-20T10:12:07Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > If he were a teen, I’d be more inclined to listen to his arguments on becoming a girl. Maybe he’s homosexual, and not clear on his real feelings? ATTENTION! This is why I stated in a previous post that I do not believe the transsexual child was a homosexual. Someone else brought it up… SHEESH! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/124 "2009-05-20T10:20:52Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > These are all results of mankind disobeying God and allowing the knowledge of sin into their lives. Genesis 1:27 happened before mankind sinned… so God created male and female in His image, and God saw that “they were good”. Except that none of that ever happened. And claiming that also makes out God to be evil, which is hardly a recommendation for obeying him like you say we should. > [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > The Bible isn’t a book filled with every truth under the sun… however, all things in the Bible are truth… Factually wrong, and logically impossible since the Bible contains contradictions. Not to mention that there are multiple versions; which version is the Bible that contains only truth ? Let me guess; the one you just happen to like. The Bible is just a collection of ancient, not-especially-profound myths. Not some sort of source of ultimate truth. > [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > The people in the days of old weren’t stupid primitives. Mankind hasn’t been progressing since Adam and Eve… mankind has been digressing. People are getting more and more stupid with each and every passing day… quite recently thanks to the printing press and the television and high speed internet… mankind is just coming up with new and improved and more clever excuses to embrace it’s ever increasing stupidity… one of the most popular scapegoats… “scientific fact”. Wrong again. The people of the past were ignorant primitives; and were probably actually stupider on average, thanks to the effects of malnutrition. We are far superior to them; we have advanced ethically and intellectually over our ancestors. As for scientific fact, science is one of humanity’s triumphs, and the source of most of our true, useful knowledge. > [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > I don’t believe this makes woman any less equal to man and it certainly doesn’t mean woman is man’s slave and has to bend over backwards for a man… it just means woman is easily deceived and not fit to rule over man. Because Adam willingly ate the fruit so Eve wouldn’t suffer alone, man was granted rule over the woman because his action was willingly out of love and compassion… not because he was deceived. In other words, God is a sexist pig and likes to entrap people. It’s a good thing he’s imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/125 "2009-05-20T10:22:39Z")
> [@NoJustice](#): > > Since this is the standard method by which christains handle doctrinal disagreements, I’d say it’s far more likely than him being “Anti-Christ”. Yeah, that Anglican quorum a while back, that was a real bloodbath. The police are still on the hunt for the Archbishop of Canterbury. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/126 "2009-05-20T10:28:31Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Yeah, that Anglican quorum a while back, that was a real bloodbath. It could have been, but they all chose “cake”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/127 "2009-05-20T12:10:50Z")
Why do you care? Seriously…it’s none of your business how anyone lives their life. What concern is it of yours? Isn’t there a passage in the bible that reads something like, “Mind your own fucking business, you black-hearted ignoramus”? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/128 "2009-05-20T12:19:47Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Why do you care? Seriously…it’s none of your business how anyone lives their life. What concern is it of yours? Isn’t there a passage in the bible that reads something like, “Mind your own fucking business, you black-hearted ignoramus”? While I don’t agree with **Lacunae** on this, I don’t think this is a particularly good argument. If you start from the point of view that transexuals don’t truly exist for whatever reason, then allowing people to believe that they are could be harmful for them. You could justify it under the same general justification for giving a shit that people have some kind of health care. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/129 "2009-05-20T12:32:56Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > While I don’t agree with **Lacunae** on this, I don’t think this is a particularly good argument. If you start from the point of view that transexuals don’t truly exist for whatever reason, then allowing people to believe that they are could be harmful for them. You could justify it under the same general justification for giving a shit that people have some kind of health care. I wasn’t commenting on the validity of transsexuality from a biological or emotional standpoint. The fact is, whether it’s made up or real, it has no bearing on the OP’s life. None whatsoever. I found the OP to be harsh, uninformed and judgemental. I don’t believe any scientific evidence regarding transsexuality will change his/her attitude. Whether it exists or not isn’t the issue. It’s whether or not a transsexual person’s orientation (or choice) is anyone else’s business. I’m not sure where the health insurance thing fits in. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/130 "2009-05-20T12:40:42Z")
Missed the edit window, but we let people “believe” all kinds of things that are harmful. Religious beliefs and such, for instance. I don’t see where the inner beliefs of a given person can be “allowed” in some cases and not others. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/131 "2009-05-20T13:09:35Z")
I don’t mean anything about health insurance. My point is that, in general, it would not be odd for someone to care about someone’s physical or mental wellbeing. You generally wouldn’t be castigated, if expressing an interest in seeing a person get better, to stay out of their business. And if you’re starting off with the idea that transexualism is not real, then for them that may well fall under that category. Just as we might be concerned about a person who cuts themselves, or otherwise causes harm to themselves or others, things like gender reassignment surgery could well be seen as a quite extreme version of self-harm. We draw the line of where inner beliefs are “allowed” in some cases all the time. Generally a “harm or considerable inconvenience” line is included in professional diagnoses of psychological disorders, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/132 "2009-05-20T13:41:29Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > ATTENTION! This is why I stated in a previous post that I do not believe the transsexual child was a homosexual. Someone else brought it up… SHEESH! Not that the 150th post in this thread means much, but it’s been obvious since post #1 that you don’t know anything about this subject. And if I’m being unclear, I mean you know absolutely nothing about this. The Bible may contain all the information you need to live a good life, but it is useless as a guide to transgenderism. It’s a complex topic and it goes against the assumptions a lot of us make about gender. You might manage to learn something about it if you approach it with an open mind. As it is, you’re not doing yourself any favors. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/133 "2009-05-20T14:47:46Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I don’t mean anything about health insurance. My point is that, in general, it would not be odd for someone to care about someone’s physical or mental wellbeing. You generally wouldn’t be castigated, if expressing an interest in seeing a person get better, to stay out of their business. And if you’re starting off with the idea that transexualism is not real, then for them that may well fall under that category. Just as we might be concerned about a person who cuts themselves, or otherwise causes harm to themselves or others, things like gender reassignment surgery could well be seen as a quite extreme version of self-harm. > > We draw the line of where inner beliefs are “allowed” in some cases all the time. Generally a “harm or considerable inconvenience” line is included in professional diagnoses of psychological disorders, for example. I’m not buying that 99% of those who butt in on these things have a person’s physical or mental health best interest in mind when they stick their nose into someone else’s personal business. Especially when they hide behind the bible or approach it with no real knowledge of the situation, as the OP seems to be doing. I think parents and other family members _might_ have a stake in it from a health standpoint. But people go through physical augmentation all the time. For the sidelines speculators, all I’m seeing is judgemental, hurtful attitude. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/134 "2009-05-20T14:57:33Z")
You know the REAL reason so many people seem to be so improportionately angered by transgenderism? Because they’re scared to death that one of these nights, they’re going to pick up someone in a bar or on a streetcorner who LOOKS like a woman, get them home, and have a replay of the big reveal in “The Crying Game”. The only way they can be “safe” from that scenario is for every person with male genitalia to act, dress and look male at all times, and for every person with female genitalia to act, dress and look like a woman at all times. It’s the same reason that butch lesbians and femme gay men come in for disproportionate displays of homophobia. And I don’t really understand where it comes from. I’ve been “fooled” at a distance by boyish lesbians…you see a cute guy standing at the bar, wonder why you’ve never met him, then realize that it’s a woman. Big deal. I’ve never gone into a rage over it. I’ve had blushing moments of “Oops” over it, but that’s three seconds of embarrassment and it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/135 "2009-05-20T15:06:25Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > personally and honestly, homosexuality is something I have a tendency for and can be aroused by, but I choose not to involve myself with it… besides that… I really like the pussy… I can’t even begin explain to you how much I love to look at the body of a naked woman… but I can honestly say that if I didn’t like women so much (and not just for their bodies) then I’d totally be a homosexual. I also believe my sexual lust for women is a sin and through the grace and teachings of God, and because of His love and His forgiveness and patience, each and everyday I get closer and closer to having control over my carnal desires. So in other words, you’re bisexual? lt seems that 99.9 percent of this so-called “Christian persecution” is, “I can’t discriminate against others without being called on it!” It’s also an insult to those Christians who really, really WERE persecuted in the past. (But like I said, it was mostly for being the wrong type of Christian) And so you say that God allows people to be born with disabilities because humankind has sinned. Well, does he then forbid any type of medical intervention? If someone is born with a cleft lip, should we then not allow that child corrective surgery, and let him or her suffer? That’s not the God I was taught to believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/136 "2009-05-20T16:12:14Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > See, here’s the thing. You’re allowed to have your beliefs, however crazy they maybe (and are). You’re not allowed to impose them on other people. Exactly. Christians are allowed to believe whatever they want as long as they don’t try to force the rest of society to accept those beliefs as true. Same with transgenders. They can believe whatever they want about how they are a woman trapped in a man’s body, as long as they don’t try to force the rest of society to … hmmm… 🙂 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/137 "2009-05-20T16:23:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Exactly. Christians are allowed to believe whatever they want as long as they don’t try to force the rest of society to accept those beliefs as true. > > Same with transgenders. They can believe whatever they want about how they are a woman trapped in a man’s body, as long as they don’t try to force the rest of society to … hmmm… There’s a big difference there and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/138 "2009-05-20T16:29:15Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’m not buying that 99% of those who butt in on these things have a person’s physical or mental health best interest in mind when they stick their nose into someone else’s personal business. Especially when they hide behind the bible or approach it with no real knowledge of the situation, as the OP seems to be doing. I think parents and other family members _might_ have a stake in it from a health standpoint. But people go through physical augmentation all the time. For the sidelines speculators, all I’m seeing is judgemental, hurtful attitude. Alright. My sole complaint was that “Why do you care? It’s none of your business.” as an argument isn’t a particularly good one. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/139 "2009-05-20T16:30:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We cross the streams, of course ! I just had to say, this made me laugh so hard! Perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021/140 "2009-05-20T16:41:24Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Alright. My sole complaint was that “Why do you care? It’s none of your business.” as an argument isn’t a particularly good one. It was less argument and more an expression of annoyance. I really don’t see how any argument is going to persuade this particular poster. The fact that we’re in GD kind of got away from me. My bad. I should have been a little more debatey in my response. (Yes…that’s a real word because I typed it.) 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-okay-to-encourage-a-child-who-chooses-to-be-transexual/497021.md?page=8)