# Is it part of Jewish belief that God can be argued, negotiated or bargained with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 21, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559 "2013-06-21T15:25:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/21 "2013-06-23T04:00:09Z")
> [@astro](#): > > A not very observant Jew once joked to me that arguing and bargaining is part of Jewish tradition because studying the Torah involved “arguing with God”. Not clear if this was meant in a literal or rhetorical sense, or maybe he was just joking around. Ask god. When you have the answer, realise that no one else can trust that you have the answer… there is no way for you to prove you have the answer. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/22 "2013-06-23T04:38:42Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > “Don’t like it? Tough shit, I’m God and you’re not.” These days, that has become “Hey, I won the election.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/23 "2013-06-23T05:19:45Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > _“You **CAN NOT** Petition the Lord with **PRAYER**!”_ > > -Jim Morrison Nor can you go to Heaven With Superman. 'Cause the Great Great Lord Is a Batman fan! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/24 "2013-06-23T12:38:42Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > _“You **CAN NOT** Petition the Lord with **PRAYER**!”_ > > -Jim Morrison He didn’t\* look \*Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/25 "2013-06-24T22:22:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I never asked a Rabbi about Abraham being told to sacrifice Issac, but why didn’t he tell G-d to take a hike? > > And what must have happened afterwards-“Issac, we don’t have to tell your Mother about this” is not in Torah. [hijack] He would’ve been too late with that. Sarah’s death immediately follows the _akedah_ (binding of Isaac). The _midrash_ I heard once was that an angel went and told Sarah about the sacrifice just before Abraham’s hand was stayed and the ram substituted for Isaac. This caused her death from grief. Sarah is 127 years old when she dies, which makes Isaac 27 or 28 at the time, which is crazy. What’s always struck me is how bloody passive Isaac is throughout his life. He’s the patriarch for the anonymous everyman, it seems to me. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/26 "2013-06-24T22:32:11Z")
Thanks Rick, you’ve spoiled a great joke! 🙂 My own hijack: I used to be a Methodist, and when I was a kid I got into trouble at Sunday school. When the teacher referred to “little Issac”, I pointed out that if he was carrying the firewood, he couldn’t be little. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/27 "2013-06-24T22:49:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Some feel that Abraham was being tested … and failed. What are some sources for this? I’ve tried to make this argument before, to some of my fellow Christians, and the idea kind of works up until you read what God said right after the incident. It’s hard to read it as in any way disappointed with Abraham. Still I insisted that Abraham’s decision displayed a kind of immaturity. My friends weren’t convinced. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/28 "2013-06-25T01:24:10Z")
RickG: > [@](#): > > Sarah is 127 years old when she dies, which makes Isaac 27 or 28 at the time, which is crazy. 1. Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born, it was Abraham who was 100. ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/29 "2013-06-25T02:57:32Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > RickG: > > 1. Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born, it was Abraham who was 100. D’oh! Thanks for the correction. Memory is the second thing to go, as they say. So, yeah, Isaac was no child at the time of the _akedah_. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559/30 "2013-06-25T17:34:00Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > So, yeah, Isaac was no child at the time of the _akedah_. It makes for “better storytelling” at Sunday School, though. And disturbingly adorable Precious Moments pictures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-part-of-jewish-belief-that-god-can-be-argued-negotiated-or-bargained-with/661559.md?page=1)