# Is it possible for a white person to use the n-word and not be a racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919 "2011-04-19T02:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/81 "2011-04-19T23:30:38Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > wiggers Yeah… that means “white nigger” and it is, rather unsurprisingly, also a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/82 "2011-04-20T00:14:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I played WoW from launch up until about a year ago. Before that, I used to play a lot of EverQuest. And the behavior described by the OP, and defended by **mil0** , is precisely why I spent the vast majority of that time either playing solo, or with people I knew in real life. A couple times, I tried joining guilds, and usually quit within a week or so, because of the incessant racist and homophobic slurs being thrown around. I’d usually quit quietly, instead of making a big deal about it. Probably, I should have spoken up, but if I’m playing a video game, it’s because I’m trying to get away from stresses like that. The selection bias here is huge, and it extends beyond the context of the game. I know people who just won’t play WoW at all (or online shooters, which are even worse for this sort of behavior) because of this factor. If you’re playing these games at all, you’re starting with a pool of people who, overwhelmingly, either don’t care, or don’t care enough to make a fuss. > > As for the whole, “He really doesn’t have a racist bone in his body,” bullshit - frankly, who gives a fuck? You take your honest-to-God, robe-wearing, cross-burning, nigger-hating racist, and drop him into WoW, alongside your average, socially-retarded fourteen year old with keyboard tourettes. How am I, as player in the game, supposed to distinguish between the two? Their in-game behavior is identical. Hell, they’ll probably both claim they aren’t really racist, if you call them on it. So why on Earth would anyone who, within this context, acts exactly like a racist in every perceivable detail, be surprised when people treat them like they’re racist? I used to be admin on a quite frequented FPS server, I swear you can tell rather quickly the real hardcore racists from the little pricks who’d need a good bar of soap stuck in their mouth. For one, most hardcore racists tend to use those insults less frequently, because they’re far less insults to them than facts. The badly educated teens usually sound more like they’re on a Tourette rant. Maybe it is totally different in WoW type games, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/83 "2011-04-20T00:34:59Z")
Nigger. And I’m not a racist. At all. Love all humans. So. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/84 "2011-04-20T01:22:54Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > Well, I do and I’d suspect most people care more about intent than mere words, especially in situations like this. I mean, what the hell kind of question is that? But how well can I judge your intent? The only data point I have regarding you, and your views on race in general, is the fact that you admit to freely calling people “niggers” when they annoy you. You can deny that you have any racist intent all you want, but why should I take your declaration of intent at face value? Most racists, in my experience, deny having any racist intent, even as they advocate positions that are manifestly racist in nature. I can’t know what’s in your heart, I can only observe your actions. And your actions, by your own description, bear no discernible difference from the actions of a genuine racist in the same context. So why should I treat you differently than a genuine racist? > [@](#): > > I don’t know if anyone else sees this but I find it hilarious that you’re constantly using epithets of your own, but somehow as I said before, yours are more mature and appropriate than mine for invective purposes. That’s because, when I use an epithet, I avoid ones that denigrate entire classes of people, and stick to ones that are descriptive of the actions of the individual being discussed. > [@](#): > > So why don’t you tell me which words, slurs, etc. are appropriate so I can refine my reproaching techniques. Is retarded among them? There are certainly people who would castigate you in the same manner you are castigating me for using that word. I wasn’t using “socially retarded” as an epithet, I was using it as a literal descriptor. That said, I do occasionally use “retarded” as an epithet. And I have been called on it. When that happens, I generally apologize to the person I have unwittingly offended, and undertake not to use that term around them in the future. I do, however, think there is a qualitative difference between insults based on value-neutral characteristics like race or sexuality, and genuine disadvantages like physical or mental disabilities. Being retarded is objectively worse than having a normally functioning intellect. Being blind is objectively worse than having sight. Being lame is objectively worse than being able to walk. I do not think that, as a general rule, calling someone retarded because they’ve acted in a way that demonstrates a lack of foresight or logical thinking, is as broadly insulting as calling someone a faggot for those same reasons, as having a lack of foresight or difficulty with logical thinking is a genuine function of actual mental retardation, which is not the case when it comes to having an attraction to members of your own gender. > [@](#): > > Why are racial epithets off the table, yet those demeaning someone’s intelligence, or what have you on the table? Because of [this](http://www.displaysforschools.com/images/samcarter.jpg), and [this](http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f226/101125d1257287890-lynchings-usa-lynching-1889.jpg), and [this](http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/lynching/lynch_01.jpg), and [this](http://www.executedtoday.com/images/Michael_Donald_lynched.jpg). That is the context for the word “nigger” in the United States. That is what you are associating yourself with when you use the word. ---
**Author:** ![Apollon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@Apollon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/85 "2011-04-20T01:27:55Z")
Ray is not racist. If he were racist, and if his using the N-word were a manifestation of his racis, why would he first expose himself so obviously, and the immediately deny it? It doesn’t make sense. You guys are missing the entire point. In the gaming community, it is normal to use such words, and it’s even considered bad form for someone to get offended by them. You feel that that’s against the customs of civilised society, but gamers are their own society with their own standards. If you want to be a gamer, you will have to learn and accept them. If you are not a gamer, it really is not your place to dictate what these standards ought to be. Anyone who isn’t a gamer should take that into account when they contribute to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/86 "2011-04-20T01:49:21Z")
> [@Apollon](#): > > Ray is not racist. If he were racist, and if his using the N-word were a manifestation of his racis, why would he first expose himself so obviously, and the immediately deny it? There are people who have posted here expressly to talk about how much they hate black people _who then deny that they are racists_. We had a guy come here from a board where they talked about nothing but their hatred of black people who started a thread entitled something like “I am a racist” who later in the thread said that he didn’t think of himself as a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/87 "2011-04-20T01:58:47Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I didn’t get across my meaning. Sarcasm, humor, and anger can all be expressed in other ways…why use a _racial_ slur to express them, if you’re not a racist? What’s the motivator to use that specific term? Or other racist words? Probably because they think it sounds edgier and cooler than other insults. That is, if they’re not actual racists. Perhaps their family members or friends used it regularly, and while they knew the term was racist they still saw it as “normal” for certain situations. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/88 "2011-04-20T02:21:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Perhaps their family members or friends used it regularly, and while they knew the term was racist they still saw it as “normal” for certain situations. Nah, not buying it. This is a word that’s SO offensive that people call it the n-word because they’re to uncomfortable to say it out loud. They know it’s not normal or acceptable. I’d bet my last dollar that none of these guys would say it outside this particular situation, and they’re only doing it because it gives them some kind of bizarre street cred with the other gamers. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/89 "2011-04-20T02:24:39Z")
> [@Apollon](#): > > Ray is not racist. If he were racist, and if his using the N-word were a manifestation of his racis, why would he first expose himself so obviously, and the immediately deny it? It doesn’t make sense. You guys are missing the entire point. In the gaming community, it is normal to use such words, and it’s even considered bad form for someone to get offended by them. You feel that that’s against the customs of civilised society, but gamers are their own society with their own standards. If you want to be a gamer, you will have to learn and accept them. > If you are not a gamer, it really is not your place to dictate what these standards ought to be. Anyone who isn’t a gamer should take that into account when they contribute to this thread. I’m a gamer. I suspect I’ve been a gamer for longer than you’ve been alive. There’s a reasonably good chance that your game playing habits have directly contributed to my paycheck. You do not speak for all gamers. ---
**Author:** ![SSgtBaloo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@SSgtBaloo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSgtBaloo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/90 "2011-04-20T02:37:50Z")
Chris Rock explains under what circumstances a white person can say “the N-Word” Spoilered for language, specifically the word in question. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63M34s8afbo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63M34s8afbo) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/91 "2011-04-20T10:42:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I didn’t think that choosing not to associate with racists in your free time was such a high standard, to be honest. Why in the world should **rachel** quit something because there are some racist assholes in it? That’s precisely why racist assholes exist in these places. People back down from jerks, and then the jerks just get jerkier and more plentiful. I’m racially sensitive as all get out, but I will never let someone bully me out of something I enjoy. It’s not like she’s staying there and keeping her mouth shut. She’s already called out the guy, so, when she’s there, he’s going to be a little less likely to say anything. Whether he’s racist or not, he’s at least being schooled that saying “nigger” will make people treat you like one. That’s a good thing. Heck, she may even inspire people like **Miller** to stand up since they know that there’s at least one other person who is willing to make a bit of a fuss when they aren’t. While I’d understand her leaving and finding a better server, I have no problem with her wanting to stick it out, at least until she’s found something better. Running away is not always the better solution. I for one would not run away from a community I’ve invested so much of my time and energy into (even if that community is virtual) just because of one or two jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Apollon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@Apollon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/92 "2011-04-20T11:30:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m a gamer. I suspect I’ve been a gamer for longer than you’ve been alive. Your being a year younger than me makes that seem rather improbable. 😃 It is possible that you’ve had different experiences than me. Maybe you play mostly with fellow Americans. In my experience, Americans tend to be more careful with the N-word. Similarly, non-Germans tend to make more Nazi jokes than actual Germans. Or it could be that you don’t tend to integrate yourself closely with your fellow gamers. Even hardcore gamers tend to be more polite in the presence of strangers. A guild’s internal forum or chatroom has a much more liberal atmosphere than a public forum. It is customary that one considers one’s fellow guildsmen as friends. Friends may cuss at their friends with impunity (at least in most cultures in the world - I don’t know what your background is). One of my buddies (he’s German) knows about my being gay. He occasionally calls me a fag and a cocksucker. I call him a Nazi Kraut, and make fun of his overweight mother. You could call him a homophobe, and you could call me a germanophobe, but that would be a flat out lie. The only thing you could call us with any degree of accuracy would be “childish” or “potty-mouths.” Now, if I understood the OP correctly, Ray wasn’t addressing the black newcomer when he dropped the N-bomb, but was speaking to his friend, who also happened to be black (rachelellogram, correct me if I’m wrong). I agree that calling the newcomer a nigger would indeed make him an insensitive prick, if not a racist. But he was using it within the context of familiarity with his black friend (a question aside: can one have black friends and still be a racist?), and that makes it an entirely different thing. Of course I don’t speak for all gamers. But I never said “all gamers do this or that,” I merely explained what is customary. There’s no question that many, perhaps even most gamers prefer not to use certain expressions, but then again, a culture is not defined by what most people do or say, but by what is being done or said the most. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > There are people who have posted here expressly to talk about how much they hate black people who then deny that they are racists. We had a guy come here from a board where they talked about nothing but their hatred of black people who started a thread entitled something like “I am a racist” who later in the thread said that he didn’t think of himself as a racist. But there’s a world of difference. These people you mention, have clearly stated their hatred towards black people, while Ray not only denied being a racist, he also denied harbouring any negative feelings towards black people. If you quack like a duck, and walk like a duck, then you probably are a duck; but someone who only quacks the quack, but doesn’t walk the walk, is he really the same? Another thing to consider is that this message board has a different culture than whatever game rachellelogram was playing. Someone who drops the N-word here will much more likely be a racist, than someone who does it amongst fellow gamers. You cannot apply one culture’s standards to judge incidents that take place in an entirely different culture. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/93 "2011-04-20T11:38:38Z")
I think what bothers me the most about the apologists in this thread is that we’re all supposed to accept it’s just gaming ‘‘culture.’’ You talk about it like you are helpless to do anything about it if you want to keep gaming. Aren’t you a part of that culture yourself? Don’t you have the power to change that culture? It’s not like one’s environment just happens to them - you are inextricably bound up in it. Instead of defending the indefensible, you could actually be doing something to change your culture for the better. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/94 "2011-04-20T11:43:00Z")
> [@Apollon](#): > > But there’s a world of difference. These people you mention, have clearly stated their hatred towards black people, while Ray not only denied being a racist, he also denied harbouring any negative feelings towards black people. You mean like KKK members who say “I have nothing against black people, I just think they should keep to themselves/go back to Africa/be shot on sight”? My rule of thumb is actually really easy: If someone doesn’t want me to think of them as a racist, they shouldn’t say racist things. My god, that’s pretty complicated! I realize that “nigger” comprises half of the words in the English language and it’s almost impossible not to say it. But I’m just picky that way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/95 "2011-04-20T12:00:45Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Obviously you and **Apollo** have never heard of wiggers, white dudes who are into stuff that blacks are into. I think you just debunked your own argument. If “nigger” wasn’t specific to one race there wouldn’t be a corresponding term for white people who “act like them.” ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/96 "2011-04-20T13:36:31Z")
> [@Apollon](#): > > Now, if I understood the OP correctly, Ray wasn’t addressing the black newcomer when he dropped the N-bomb, but was speaking to his friend, who also happened to be black (rachelellogram, correct me if I’m wrong). No, the friend was white. And Ray is white. The new member was the only black person present as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/97 "2011-04-20T14:05:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why in the world should **rachel** quit something because there are some racist assholes in it? That’s precisely why racist assholes exist in these places. People back down from jerks, and then the jerks just get jerkier and more plentiful. I’m racially sensitive as all get out, but I will never let someone bully me out of something I enjoy. From her OP I didn’t get the impression that she thought things could change. And from someone who thinks that having the wrong color band aids is something that contributes to white privilege, it’s bizarre that she’s not more bothered by hearing racial epithets. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/98 "2011-04-20T14:21:26Z")
You know, FS, I have this mental image of you as someone who prints out every post I make and plasters your walls with them so that you won’t forget a single word I’ve said. You’ve been stalking me around the board for a long time now. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or freaked by it. If you’d like to continue this tangent, please send me a PM instead of further derailing the thread. The topic in question is whether a white person can say the n-word without being racist, not whether Rachelellogram is making the right life choice by choosing not to leave her WoW guild. snerk. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/99 "2011-04-20T14:30:56Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > You know, FS, I have this mental image of you as someone who prints out every post I make and plasters your walls with them so that you won’t forget a single word I’ve said. You’ve been stalking me around the board for a long time now. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or freaked by it. You leave a lasting impression. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/100 "2011-04-20T15:52:25Z")
Of course people can use the word “nigger” without being racist. Is a mother who tells her child “you mustn’t say the word “nigger”” a racist? No? Then we’ve answered the OP’s question. People can tell racist jokes without being racist. People can tell sexist jokes without being sexist. What sickens me in this thread is the PC-brigade rushing in to judge people they’ve never met based on a single word they used, when they are (mostly) completely clueless about the situation and context the word is used. I find this dismissal of another’s worth to be frightening, you guys have no problem labelling another a racist based on a tiny, out of context sample of that person’s speech patterns. (Racist is arguably a worse slur than nigger in many situations.) As **Apollon** said upthread, nazi jokes are far less common in Germany than the rest of the world. Similarly, the word “nigger” is used far more casually outside America, where most of the stigma with the word seems to have originated. Similarly, we see nothing wrong with Mohammed jokes, while it would be less than prudent to do a Mohammed comedy routine on the streets of Pakistan. The internet is a place where all these cultures come together, and you should be less dismissive of someone who uses what you consider a racist word - generally you are the one being prejudiced, not them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=6)