# Is it possible for a white person to use the n-word and not be a racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919 "2011-04-19T02:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/121 "2011-04-20T18:12:10Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Hey, someone’s gotta do it, right? > > Believe it or not, some people _do_ think there are times when it is acceptable to use racial slurs. Normal, nice people. Well, those people may be normal and nice, but they are also wrong. > [@](#): > > Some people believe that how you treat people is more important than the vocabulary you use doing so. Vocabulary is a component of how you treat people. And here’s what you’re not getting. Saying “I can call Bob a nigger, that’s just how we talk” is not the same thing as saying “I can call Bob a shithead, that’s just how we talk.” I get that people, mostly in situations where it’s mostly guys, have this bust-on-each-other type of interaction. But when you call someone a racial slur in order to bust on them, that’s the _same thing as saying that race is a bad thing to be_. It’s not just a random insult, it’s an insult that implies that ol’Bob is something beneath you, like Black people are. That is why your opinion and Bob’s opinion about calling him that word isn’t what’s relevant in terms of why it’s not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/122 "2011-04-20T18:14:17Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Believe it or not, some people _do_ think there are times when it is acceptable to use racial slurs. Normal, nice people. > > Some people believe that how you treat people is more important than the vocabulary you use doing so. How you treat people includes what you say to them or about them. Speech is action. I judge people by what they do and what they say. I know it’s very difficult, nearly impossible, to be a white person in this world. My goodness, use a few racial slurs and people all of a sudden think you mean them. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/123 "2011-04-20T18:31:07Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Well, those people may be normal and nice, but they are also wrong. Wrong about what? 42, right? > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Vocabulary is a component of how you treat people. And here’s what you’re not getting. Saying “I can call Bob a nigger, that’s just how we talk” is not the same thing as saying “I can call Bob a shithead, that’s just how we talk.” I get that people, mostly in situations where it’s mostly guys, have this bust-on-each-other type of interaction. But when you call someone a racial slur in order to bust on them, that’s the _same thing as saying that race is a bad thing to be_. It’s not just a random insult, it’s an insult that implies that ol’Bob is something beneath you, like Black people are. That is why your opinion and Bob’s opinion about calling him that word isn’t what’s relevant in terms of why it’s not acceptable. If Bob and I are in a locked room, away from the rest of civilisation, are our opinions relevant then? What if we get stuck in a time-warp and come back to a human-free Earth in 20000 years time? Then would the origins of the word be relevant? (I know this is a stupid question, but I’m asking to try and get some idea of where the line is drawn between “you can’t use that word, too much history” and “ok, guess you can use it now, no one who is likely to be offended will hear it.” For me, people set their own limits on conversation. I have no problem with my friends calling me whatever insults they like. However, someone who doesn’t know me would get a very different response. When dealing with strangers, social rules and conventions should apply. When dealing with your friends, your own rules apply. I don’t see anything wrong with this.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/124 "2011-04-20T18:34:41Z")
I am actually more offended that I apparently have no right to speak up because I “am not a gamer”. What the fuck does that even mean? I’ve been “gaming” on one platform or another since I was 10 and had my Atari 2600. That would be about 25 years. I’ve played online games, RPGs, strategy, SHMUPs, MMPORGs. You name it I’ve tried it. So if I get on an online game and ask for some fucking standards it’s all “You’re not a gamer, you just have to suck it up and deal.” Which of course just makes me not want to play at all. Do you not understand that you are driving people away with this bullshit? Not all of you on online games are teenagers! Some of you are definitely old enough to know better (if you’re Miller’s age, I’m almost positive Miller is older than me.) But don’t worry. If you are throwing around racial slurs I don’t actually think you are racist. No, not me. I just think you are racist OR ignorant OR obnoxious or maybe a combination of all three. Better? ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/125 "2011-04-20T18:37:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How you treat people includes what you say to them or about them. Speech is action. I judge people by what they do and what they say. > > I know it’s very difficult, nearly impossible, to be a white person in this world. My goodness, use a few racial slurs and people all of a sudden think you mean them. It’s a hard burden. But we should be well able for it - we are the master race after all. (JOKING!) ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/126 "2011-04-20T18:38:21Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > But don’t worry. If you are throwing around racial slurs I don’t actually think you are racist. No, not me. I just think you are racist OR ignorant OR obnoxious or maybe a combination of all three. Better? Regardless of context or company? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/127 "2011-04-20T18:49:32Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Regardless of context or company? Yeah, I think she’s covered the three major possibilities. Racist, ignorant, or obnoxious. If you call your white buddy your ‘nigger’, then either you mean it as an insult, a playful insult/term of endearment, or a provocation to those who might overhear. In which case you would be racist, ignorant, or obnoxious respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/128 "2011-04-20T18:59:50Z")
> [@carm](#): > > However, **rachellelogram, Euphonious Polemic, jsgodess, Miller, Odesio, CandidGamer, Sarahfeena** all seemed to be happy to either call the guy racist, or say he’s either a racist or a jerk. That’s just from the first 30 posts on page 1. I do think it’s a lead pipe cinch he’s a racist or a jerk. If you go around calling people “nigger” cavalierly and think that shit is funny, you’re a jerk. He may not hate black people, but he’s an idiot. > [@](#): > > Ok, good point. But being called stuff like racist, or sexist pig, or similar disparaging terms can still be hurtful and damaging to a person’s reputation. Yes, it can. And it’s always a good idea to be careful with accusations of racism and other things of that type. But I don’t think this is a tough case to evaluate. > [@carm](#): > > And you can easily use the term without meaning offense. Other non-black people can then mistakenly believe youto be a racist. _Easily?_ It’s never happened to me and it’s never almost happened. It is actually very easy to go through life without casually using racial and ethnic slurs, and I don’t live in fear that someone is going to call me a racist if I ever get into a conversation about the works of Mark Twain, for example. > [@carm](#): > > Believe it or not, some people _do_ think there are times when it is acceptable to use racial slurs. Normal, nice people. > > Some people believe that how you treat people is more important than the vocabulary you use doing so. It’s not either/or. Nobody has to choose between being a nice person and making bigoted comments. I think if you give lots of money to charity and go around calling people nigger and kike and chink all the time, we can safely say you’ve got some serious issues. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/129 "2011-04-20T19:36:54Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Wrong about what? 42, right? > > If Bob and I are in a locked room, away from the rest of civilisation, are our opinions relevant then? What if we get stuck in a time-warp and come back to a human-free Earth in 20000 years time? Then would the origins of the word be relevant? > > (I know this is a stupid question, but I’m asking to try and get some idea of where the line is drawn between “you can’t use that word, too much history” and “ok, guess you can use it now, no one who is likely to be offended will hear it.” For me, people set their own limits on conversation. I have no problem with my friends calling me whatever insults they like. However, someone who doesn’t know me would get a very different response. When dealing with strangers, social rules and conventions should apply. When dealing with your friends, your own rules apply. I don’t see anything wrong with this.) What I keep wondering is why YOU’RE not offended by hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/130 "2011-04-20T21:22:14Z")
> [@carm](#): > > The internet is a place where all these cultures come together, and you should be less dismissive of someone who uses what you consider a racist word - generally you are the one being prejudiced, not them. I’ve been laughing about this all damn day. You seriously propose that people offended by racial slurs are more culturally insensitive than those using them? Some people in another country ripped a highly offensive, divisive word out of its historical and cultural context and feel free to use it with impunity, and that makes _us_ insensitive? Gimme a break. Here’s a friendly tip for successful international diplomacy: don’t fucking use a racial slur whose meaning you have no contextual basis to understand or comprehend. It is the epitome of cultural insensitivity to dismiss centuries of oppression, hardship and prejudice with a hand-wave that we’re all just overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/131 "2011-04-20T22:41:46Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > This thread is SO illuminating. I just discovered that as put off as I am by people whole through racial epithets around carelessly, I’m even more put off by people who spend any energy at all defending the practice. > > Seriously, the argument here is that I’m supposed to feel bad for people who think nigger is an acceptable word to say, and get shocked and offended that people think they’re racist? Is that what you got out of post #63? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/132 "2011-04-20T22:56:52Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Having teenage kids I’ve had occasion to watch them and their friends in full flow when they’re gaming, hanging out, whatever. They’re of varied ancestry, Anglo, Mediterranean, African, Indian, Asian and when they’re together they are completely oblivious of those ancestries. Nigger is used quite unselfconsciously to anyone and everyone as a term of endearment, respect, all sorts of ways - the only way that it isn’t used is as a term of abuse. (“You my nigger!” seems to be the most frequently used phrase containing the term.) > > Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying that the word is used constantly, it’s just there like any other word. Listening to it used thus innocently is refreshing. It sounds natural, it sounds normal and you know what? It sounds like the future. First of all: they are probably saying “nigga,” not “niggER.” The “nigga” usage is _maybe_ acceptable colloquially if the people saying it have “street cred”. The “niggER” usage is never really appropriate unless you are quoting someone else in an objective context, and even then, so many people go out of their way to not say the word that it’s still not fully accepted even then. Second: they may be using this word at home, but I doubt they’re saying it in public, especially around actual black people. You mentioned one of the kids is African - I’ll assume this means he is from an African country and therefore not part of what is considered “Black” American culture. He’s probably less hung up about the phrase than an American-born black person who grew up in American “black culture.” I think you really should discourage these kids from using the word. It is bound to get them in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/133 "2011-04-20T23:00:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Is that what you got out of post #63? No, that was not a response to post #63. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/134 "2011-04-20T23:04:32Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No, that was not a response to post #63. Neither are the 52 posts before it, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/135 "2011-04-20T23:28:19Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Is that what you got out of post #63? FWIW I thought you made a really good point. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/136 "2011-04-21T06:49:36Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Seriously??? You admit you don’t care if you mislabel someone a racist. You admit you can’t distinguish between racists and non-racists, so you solve that problem by just deciding they’re all racists? No, that’s not what I said. What I said was, why should I treat that person any better than I’d treat a racist? In this particular context, the behavior of the guy described in the OP is identical to the behavior of a racist. Therefore, my reaction to both people is going to be the same. The reaction, in both cases, is generalized disgust. Whether I should be disgusted because the person is a racist, or disgusted because the person thinks it’s the height of hilarity to act like a racist in public, is largely academic. Neither behavior is a notable improvement on the other. > [@carm](#): > > Fair enough. I just dislike the tendency of people to throw these terms around willy-nilly. The irony here is absolutely _massive_. > [@](#): > > I reread the first page. Ok, a lot of people stopped short of calling him a definite racist, and just said he’s either a racist or a jackass, which I disagree with. We don’t have enough context to make a meaningful evaluation of this person’s morals or general behaviour in life. And calling someone a racist _can_ be worse than calling someone a nigger, depending on context, relationship with the person, who else witnesses it and various other factors. Nigger is obviously the more loaded term. But calling someone a racist is not something that should be done lightly. Casually using terms like “nigger” is not a negligible data point. That’s actually a pretty major flag about a person’s personality. Take this excerpt posted by **mil0** : > [@some guy from WoW](#): > > IF I FIND OUT THAT SPIRIT OF REDEMPTION PREVENTS ALGALON FROM DESPAWNING I’M GOING OF FUCKING RAPE [replaced]. Just an FYI. NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER. > PS I slept very poorly last night because I wanted to yell at [replaced] A LOT. You could take the word “nigger” out of that quote entirely, and it only marginally improves it. You still have a post that leaves an overwhelming impression of a emotionally stunted, entitled, whinging little shit. > [@carm](#): > > Believe it or not, some people _do_ think there are times when it is acceptable to use racial slurs. Normal, nice people. > > Some people believe that how you treat people is more important than the vocabulary you use doing so. I’m going to throw you a curve here, and agree with you. There are contexts where you can use language like this without generating a negative impression. A public space inhabited by strangers and vague acquaintances is not one of those contexts. “Nigger” is a hugely insulting term to a great number of people. If you’re not absolutely certain that everyone in earshot of you is either indifferent to the word, or knows you well enough not to get offended by it, _don’t use the fucking word!_ If you screw up, and use the word in front of someone who does get offended by it, _apologize_. Don’t defend your usage of it. Don’t insist that people shouldn’t be offended by a word that was specifically coined to insult. And for fuck’s sake, don’t act like _your_ the aggrieved party because you thought violating one of society’s strongest (and most justified) taboos would be good for a laugh. Earlier, you said: > [@](#): > > The internet is a place where all these cultures come together, and you should be less dismissive of someone who uses what you consider a racist word - generally you are the one being prejudiced, not them. And you’re so close to actually getting it right there. On the internet, you’re surrounded by people from all sorts of places and backgrounds. This means you should be _even more_ careful about what words you use, because you never know who is listening. That’s what makes the actions described in the OP so unacceptable. It demonstrates such an almost toxic level of provincialism, to assume that, because you can say “nigger” around your friends without provoking an incident, that you can use it anywhere you please, and other people should just put up with it. That usage may make you a racist, but by God, it still makes you as big an asshole as one. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/137 "2011-04-21T07:43:46Z")
Racist? No, not necessarily, maybe even not likely. It’s an unfortunate part of gaming culture, mostly among the people who are young enough to like to piss people off. I try to remove myself from contexts where it’s used, but that’s more because it’s obnoxious and usually indicated I won’t get along with that person than anything. Some people have no filter, they just say shit because it’s provocative, I’m friends with some of these people (though they usually don’t go as far, and only very rarely do things like “fag” slip out, but they definitely curse more often). I don’t think it’s fair to characterize it as “acting like a racist,” it really is an intent thing, it’s used to be provocative, and in a way, used to rob it of its meaning. I’ve met racists, and very rarely are they so blatant, it’s not usually “you’re such a nigger” or just blurting nigger because it’s shocking. As obnoxious as it is, it’s hardly racism that I’ve witnessed. Usually the real, true, problematic racists I’ve met are perfectly nice people… until they start talking about how all Mexicans except the ones they’ve worked with are lazy bums, or how the coons took over the mall and now it’s a death trap to go there after 11 PM. I’m sure, somewhere, there’s a crossover between absolutely obnoxious shit and legitimate racist, and I’m not defending the use of the language (I really wish it would stop, hence why I don’t abide by it in my presence, it’s nothing if not obnoxious and counterproductive), but I really don’t think it has the intent behind it to be racist in most cases, just overwhelmingly (and deliberately) provocative. ---
**Author:** ![mil0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mil0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mil0)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/138 "2011-04-21T20:29:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You could take the word “nigger” out of that quote entirely, and it only marginally improves it. You still have a post that leaves an overwhelming impression of a emotionally stunted, entitled, whinging little shit. Well, to be fair, your posts in this thread give the overwhelming impression of a haranguing, zealously moralistic and pretentious asshole who hasn’t a clue about competitive gaming and yet still sees fit to judge the worth of a person based on their vernacular in a fraternal setting. But I’m sure you’re a nice person, really 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/139 "2011-04-21T20:44:25Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > Well, to be fair, your posts in this thread give the overwhelming impression of a haranguing, zealously moralistic and pretentious asshole who hasn’t a clue about competitive gaming and yet still sees fit to judge the worth of a person based on their vernacular in a fraternal setting. Which proves my point: it’s trivially easy to accurately judge someone based on the words they choose to use. ---
**Author:** ![mil0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mil0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mil0)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/140 "2011-04-21T21:27:24Z")
Which is why I tend to err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, too many false positives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=8)