# Is it possible for a white person to use the n-word and not be a racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919 "2011-04-19T02:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Blackhawk441](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Blackhawk441](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackhawk441)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/141 "2011-06-10T19:47:53Z")
> [@carm](#): > > Believe it or not, some people _do_ think there are times when it is acceptable to use racial slurs. Normal, nice people. > > Some people believe that how you treat people is more important than the vocabulary you use doing so. This. It’s all about the context. Like it or not, the teenage/gaming culture these days involves these kinds of things. In my opinion (and the opinion of the majority of people within that culture), actual intent is far, far more important than actual choice of vocabulary. In the context of that sort of situation (playing a game online, with friends who feel the same way) I believe it is acceptable (crass, yes, immature, maybe, but not racist) to use slurs or epithets, if only meant in a joking or friendly way. On the other hand, if someone decides to walk around town with the general population dropping N-bombs and such, that is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable. It’s all about the **context** the word is used in. In either circumstance, it’s unacceptable to use that word with actual racist intent (trying to degrade or intimidate someone on the basis of their race). You can agree or disagree with me but this is just the opinion of someone who is pretty heavily into that culture. I can brush off people just saying dirty things and swearing (racially or not) pretty damn easily, but if someone ever uses it in a legitimately racist way I do take umbrage. (And it takes a \*\* LOT \*\* to offend me.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/142 "2011-06-10T21:33:06Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > The guild master is a racist too. > > I have been thinking about finding a new guild, but it’s frankly not easy to find a successful guild that outlaws this sort of chatter, in my experience. Skilled gamers tend to be young and egoistic. Also, I would feel like a better person if I got any of my guildmates to examine their speech and perhaps consider making a change. If I leave now I’d feel like a quitter when I might have the power to effect a change. There are two words that should be used very sparingly in WoW Ventrilo. Nigger and Faggot. When a white straight kid directs there words at other white straight kids they aren’t doing it because they think the other kid is black or homosexual. They are using a word that perjoratively describes blacks and homosexuals to insult the other kid. It reinforces the notion that there is something about being called black or homosexual that is insulting. And people who use those words do so because they think it is insulting. IMHO, I don’t think black culture helps this at all by “owning” the word nigger quite as enthusiastically as it does. White kids frequently think that black culture is cool young and rebellious so they do what they see black folks do. I remember a time when black men called each other brother now they call each other nigger (niggah, seriously wtf is the difference), wtf happened over the last 30 years. In short, your guild is full of immature racists that hopefully won’t grow up to become adult racists (and most of them won’t) and frankly most high end raiding guilds aren’t full of 12 year olds. They don’t have the patience or discipline to engage in progression. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/143 "2011-06-10T21:34:20Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > My mother had always taught me that the N word refers to someone uneducated and rude, not, someone of a dark skin color. “Whites can be n\*\*\*\*\*s, too.” That’s what she told me. Perhaps your mother is a racist by today’s standards. My father was as were my uncle and my grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/144 "2011-06-10T21:57:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There are two words that should be used very sparingly in WoW Ventrilo. Nigger and Faggot. When a white straight kid directs there words at other white straight kids they aren’t doing it because they think the other kid is black or homosexual. They are using a word that perjoratively describes blacks and homosexuals to insult the other kid. It reinforces the notion that there is something about being called black or homosexual that is insulting. And people who use those words do so because they think it is insulting. They use that word because it’s an insult, yes. But for a lot of teens, it isn’t connected to _why_ it’s an insult. If they call their friend the N word, they aren’t calling their friend a black man in an insulting way, they are just referring to their friend by an insulting word. If there was a swear word as bad as the N word for middle class white kids, they’d use it. If there was a swear word for badgers that was as bad as the N word, they’d use it. There’s no connection to where it came from. This is my personal experience both online and offline. Of course there are racist and homophobic teens using the word, but there’s also many that just use it for the shock value, unconnected to the origination of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/145 "2011-06-10T22:39:22Z")
> [@Blackhawk441](#): > > This. It’s all about the context. Like it or not, the teenage/gaming culture these days involves these kinds of things. In my opinion (and the opinion of the majority of people within that culture), actual intent is far, far more important than actual choice of vocabulary. In the context of that sort of situation (playing a game online, with friends who feel the same way) I believe it is acceptable (crass, yes, immature, maybe, but not racist) to use slurs or epithets, if only meant in a joking or friendly way. On the other hand, if someone decides to walk around town with the general population dropping N-bombs and such, that is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable. It’s all about the **context** the word is used in. In either circumstance, it’s unacceptable to use that word with actual racist intent (trying to degrade or intimidate someone on the basis of their race). The issue here, however, is not a situation where you’re hanging out with a bunch of friends. It’s in a public (if virtual) space - no different from a street corner. There is _a_ gaming culture that feels that these terms are acceptable. It is not, however, _the only_ gaming culture, far less the only culture that you’ll encounter in an online game. The video game market is huge, and getting huger. Not everyone you encounter in a game is going to be part of your teenage/college age Dane Cook brat pack. Not even _most_ people, particularly in a game with as broad appeal as World of _Warcraft._ If you want to set up a private server where you and a dozen or so of your white, straight friends can sit around and scream “nigger” and “faggot” at each other while playing _Counter Strike_, go nuts. But when you start doing that in a public arena (like, say, the most successful massively multiplayer game of all time), then don’t be surprised when people start mistaking you for a racist asshole, because that’s precisely what you’re acting like. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/146 "2011-06-10T23:23:07Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Look, it’s not a hard concept. If you don’t like people thinking you’re racist, don’t act like one and you won’t have that problem. A corollary is that if you have to start off a sentence with, “I don’t want to sound like a racist, but…” you’re a racist. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/147 "2011-06-11T06:51:40Z")
This is why I don’t play online games, at least not ones with voice chat. It’s grating to have to hear “nigger”, “faggot”, “kike”, etc. ad nauseam. To the OP, do they know you’re a woman, and do they constantly make inappropriate references to this fact? That’s pretty common as well, in my experience (I’m a man, but I’ve seen it a lot). I do wonder, however, if this is only part of a larger thing. There are a lot of sites like 4chan where every other word is a slur and people go out of their way to say the most ridiculously offensive things for the “lulz”. I don’t think these people are actually racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. Could it be that there’s this internet youth subculture that is just completely desensitized? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/148 "2011-06-11T09:07:47Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Guild leadership has been inviting some new people lately, and apparently one of them was black (nobody knew it). One of our mouthier officers–let’s call him Ray–called his friend a n-word, and the new guy said he was upset by the racism and quit the guild. I felt it was a reasonable response. Of course, Ray immediately declares that he’s not racist and the new guy is an oversensitive pussy Do Ray or his friend live in Nigg? Nigg’s a little place just south of Aberdeen. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/149 "2011-06-11T11:08:50Z")
I think the lesson here is actually don’t play World of Warcraft. If you don’t want interact with people who don’t have a good understanding of social mores, don’t join a club for such people. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/150 "2011-06-12T04:56:38Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > They use that word because it’s an insult, yes. But for a lot of teens, it isn’t connected to _why_ it’s an insult. If they call their friend the N word, they aren’t calling their friend a black man in an insulting way, they are just referring to their friend by an insulting word. If there was a swear word as bad as the N word for middle class white kids, they’d use it. If there was a swear word for badgers that was as bad as the N word, they’d use it. There’s no connection to where it came from. > > This is my personal experience both online and offline. Of course there are racist and homophobic teens using the word, but there’s also many that just use it for the shock value, unconnected to the origination of the word. The origination of the word is where the shock value comes from. The word faggot is an almost universal slander for teenage boys who are still trying to figure stuff out on their own. There is not a single teenager that uses the word nigger that doesn’t realize that nigger is a perjorative term for black people. When they use it, they are are trying to insult someone by calling them black. They may not have thought about it a lot but they are being racist. They may become less so as they mature, I used words as a teenager that I would never use today but when I used them, there were associations in my mind between these words and the common perjorative meaning of these words. When i realized how bad racism was, I stopped engaging in it. ---
**Author:** ![Blackhawk441](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Blackhawk441](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackhawk441)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/151 "2011-06-12T05:51:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They may not have thought about it a lot but they are being racist. I don’t really think you _can_ be racist without realizing it. Especially in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/152 "2011-06-12T05:53:51Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m asking because of an incident that happened in my WoW guild’s chat tonight. It’s a pretty typical immature white-kid-gamer atmosphere, lots of n-words\* being thrown around but everybody in the guild is white. If it makes you feel better: I like Jon Stewart’s tack, those punks aren’t racist. It takes real hate, real commitment and real energy to earn the title racist. You have to want it. Online gaming is a threat free atmosphere where some minorities can be identified by their speech and can easily get wound up with a word. If there is one thing all 13 year old’s have in common it is the need to wind as many people up as possible in a consequence free environment. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/153 "2011-06-12T05:56:19Z")
Yes. There’s a difference between being an actual ideological racist and being a shithead who uses racial slurs to piss people off just because he knows it will piss people off. ---
**Author:** ![ripopgome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@ripopgome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ripopgome)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/154 "2011-06-12T06:07:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There are two words that should be used very sparingly in WoW Ventrilo. Nigger and Faggot. When a white straight kid directs there words at other white straight kids they aren’t doing it because they think the other kid is black or homosexual. They are using a word that perjoratively describes blacks and homosexuals to insult the other kid. It reinforces the notion that there is something about being called black or homosexual that is insulting. And people who use those words do so because they think it is insulting. This. Why it took until post #142 to get at what I think is the heart of the criticism, I don’t know, but glad it got pointed out; I think generally these folks aren’t racist at heart, but they realize the power of words, know these are insults, and use them as such, propagating the racist/homophobic power of these words. Which means these people are behaving like assholes, and that’s what’s actually important. The question “can someone use the n-word and not be a racist” has been shown that in the correct context, as an abstraction, of course. The question should be “is it worth hanging around a bunch of assholes to play this game?” because that’s the concrete situation, and the only answer that will guide you toward making a decision in the situation. Who cares what’s in the heart of hearts of your friends, you can’t know anyhow (really), but if they’re dicks, maybe it’s not worth bothering in the first place. So decide the fun of the game is more important than the dickish nature of the people you play with, or it isn’t, and find new people to play with; simple enough, really, although of course it probably wouldn’t spawn a massive doper thread if you posed it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/155 "2011-06-13T02:15:09Z")
> [@Blackhawk441](#): > > I don’t really think you _can_ be racist without realizing it. Especially in this context. I think most of antebellum south was racist without realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/156 "2011-06-13T02:21:08Z")
> [@ripopgome](#): > > This. Why it took until post #142 to get at what I think is the heart of the criticism, I don’t know, but glad it got pointed out; I think generally these folks aren’t racist at heart, but they realize the power of words, know these are insults, and use them as such, propagating the racist/homophobic power of these words. Which means these people are behaving like assholes, and that’s what’s actually important. The question “can someone use the n-word and not be a racist” has been shown that in the correct context, as an abstraction, of course. The question should be “is it worth hanging around a bunch of assholes to play this game?” because that’s the concrete situation, and the only answer that will guide you toward making a decision in the situation. Who cares what’s in the heart of hearts of your friends, you can’t know anyhow (really), but if they’re dicks, maybe it’s not worth bothering in the first place. > > So decide the fun of the game is more important than the dickish nature of the people you play with, or it isn’t, and find new people to play with; simple enough, really, although of course it probably wouldn’t spawn a massive doper thread if you posed it that way. The worst part is that the best guilds have more mature people. The best guilds do not rely on the incredible twitch reflex of 12 year olds. You need discipline and focus. Sure you need reasonably good reflexes for some of the interrupt positions (I haven’t played in a while but crazy cat lady comes to mind), but it was never twitch reflex. You had a good second or two to execute that interrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Blackhawk441](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Blackhawk441](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackhawk441)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/157 "2011-06-13T05:07:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think most of antebellum south was racist without realizing it. I think we can both agree institutional slavery is different than swearing on the Internet. And yes, I do think that it is impossible to be ideologically racist in the modern-day United States without realizing it to some degree. I seriously doubt that the people on WoW fail to realize how racially charged the word nigger can be, but that doesn’t mean that using the word makes them ideologically racist. It all depends on the intent behind their usage. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/158 "2011-06-13T11:32:13Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Yes. There’s a difference between being an actual ideological racist and being a shithead who uses racial slurs to piss people off just because he knows it will piss people off. … or doesn’t care if he pisses people off? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/159 "2011-06-13T13:58:22Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I like Jon Stewart’s tack, those punks aren’t racist. It takes real hate, real commitment and real energy to earn the title racist. You have to want it. To “earn” the title of racist, all you have to do is think one race is better than another race. There’s no requirement that you hate anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919/160 "2011-06-13T19:01:01Z")
> [@Blackhawk441](#): > > I think we can both agree institutional slavery is different than swearing on the Internet. > > And yes, I do think that it is impossible to be ideologically racist in the modern-day United States without realizing it to some degree. I seriously doubt that the people on WoW fail to realize how racially charged the word nigger can be, but that doesn’t mean that using the word makes them ideologically racist. It all depends on the intent behind their usage. So to you “I don’t really think you can be racist without realizing it. Especially in this context.” means you can’t be ideologically racist without realizing it? OK well then in that context i agree with you. But it think you can be an ignorant racist without realizing you are a racist. Which kind do you think is more common? Racism that springs from ideology or racism taht springs from ignorance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-for-a-white-person-to-use-the-n-word-and-not-be-a-racist/578919.md?page=9)