# Is it possible some Dinosaurs still existed during the Dark Ages? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800 "2017-08-04T20:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/61 "2017-08-05T20:41:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How old are Plesiosaur looking dipictions of sea serpents? The oar fish is a likely candidate for sea serpent sightings. Sure. But still, some talk about a “snake like neck” coming out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/62 "2017-08-05T20:44:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Komodo dragons are generally classified as lizards, due to both genetics and physiology. Lizards and dinosaurs are sufficiently different in physiology (and probably genetics, but there’s essentially no usable evidence of what dinosaur DNA was like to tell) for it to be pretty obvious that k.dragons aren’t dinosaurs. Maybe we need to look at our definition of just what is called a “dinosaur”. Their are “lizards” that can run around on their hind feet. As there were dinosaurs who went around on all fours. I bring up Komodo dragons just as an example of how there are some very large lizards out there and who knows, maybe in the past there were others? Can we go off everything purely based on fossils? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/63 "2017-08-05T20:51:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Maybe we need to look at our definition of just what is called a “dinosaur”. Their are “lizards” that can run around on their hind feet. As there were dinosaurs who went around on all fours. Non-avian dinos are a distinct branch of the reptile class\*. Lizards (monitor or otherwise) are not on that branch. All non-avian dinos are reptiles, but not all reptiles are dinos. **Jayjay** is using the scientific definition. Which definition are you using? \*Kingdom, phylum, class… ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/64 "2017-08-05T21:04:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Maybe we need to look at our definition of just what is called a “dinosaur”. Their are “lizards” that can run around on their hind feet. As there were dinosaurs who went around on all fours. > > I bring up Komodo dragons just as an example of how there are some very large lizards out there and who knows, maybe in the past there were others? > > Can we go off everything purely based on fossils? As I’ve already noted, no dinosaur had a sprawling gait, not even the obligate quadropeds. Their pevic bone literally prevented this. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/65 "2017-08-05T21:14:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Non-avian dinos are a distinct branch of the reptile class\*. Lizards (monitor or otherwise) are not on that branch. All non-avian dinos are reptiles, but not all reptiles are dinos. **Jayjay** is using the scientific definition. Which definition are you using? > > \*Kingdom, phylum, class… What I’m saying is, lets just suppose, that some soldiers, back in say Roman days, or even a medieval knight, did go out and kill a large reptilian creature. What did he kill? A crocodile? A monitor lizard? Maybe some lizard species thats extinct now? We laypeople call it a “dinosaur” just because, and lacking any fossil or skeletal remains, thats what it appears as? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/66 "2017-08-05T21:15:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If anything, being exiled by circumstance to an island tends to lead to [insular dwarfism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_dwarfism), which is kind of the opposite of King Kongification. For mammals, yes. It can work in the opposite direction for reptiles. I don’t understand the mechanism, but I suspect it’s related to being an endotherm vs an ectotherm. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/67 "2017-08-05T21:23:50Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Your mission–if you should choose to accept it–is to read post number 17 17 times. > > No, there is no chance whatsoever that large dinosaurs have been hanging around for 65 million years unnoticed. In fact, finding surviving large dinosaurs would be such a mind-numbingly significant event, it would be proof of either time-travel or Young Earth Creationism. Find me a living sauropod and I’ll start saving for an expedition to Mount Ararat, because it would damn well mean that Noah’s Ark is sitting up there. I can find nothing in post #17 that rules out the possibility of a small, neat-extinct population of Aquilops in the Brazilian rainforest. Can you please identify the precise lines in post 17 you believe address the Aquilops? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/68 "2017-08-05T21:26:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I vaguely remember than the oxygen content of the atmosphere was different. > > Unknown groups of humans show up in the Brazilian rain forest, but they are people, like you and me, except that they smell very bad. I’d like a cite for the proposition that Aquilops could not survive in today’s atmosphere, please. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/69 "2017-08-05T21:29:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP’s question was whether surviving dinosaurs might be the inspiration for the worldwide legends of dragons. So a small population of dinosaurs in a remote location wouldn’t qualify. I agree. I was responding to the claim that surviving dinosaurs were impossible, made later in the thread. No one would be likely to mistake an Aquilops for a dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/70 "2017-08-05T21:43:34Z")
They were called steganosaurus. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/71 "2017-08-05T22:05:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can find nothing in post #17 that rules out the possibility of a small, neat-extinct population of Aquilops in the Brazilian rainforest. Can you please identify the precise lines in post 17 you believe address the Aquilops? If that isn’t clear enough for you, then you seem to be a lost cause for even the most basic level of scientific understanding. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/72 "2017-08-05T22:08:44Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > If that isn’t clear enough for you, then you seem to be a lost cause for even the most basic level of scientific understanding. No, science actually doesn’t work like that. Scientist say: _There is no evidence that any non-avian dinosaurs survived until modern times._ They don’t say: _It’s literally impossible that any non-avian dinosaurs survived until modern times_. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/73 "2017-08-05T22:19:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, science actually doesn’t work like that. Scientist say: _There is no evidence that any non-avian dinosaurs survived until modern times._ They don’t say: _It’s literally impossible that any non-avian dinosaurs survived until modern times_. But they can say that it is so asymptoticly close to impossible as to be indistinguishable from it. The likelyhoood of surviving dinosaurs is so absolutely insanely astronomically remote that it makes the existence of bigfoot look like an utter certainty in comparison. And, BTW, absence of evidence \*is \*evidence of absence _when that evidence should be apparent_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/74 "2017-08-05T22:27:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But they can say that it is so asymptoticly close to impossible as to be indistinguishable from it. The likelyhoood of surviving dinosaurs is so absolutely insanely astronomically remote that it makes the existence of bigfoot look like an utter certainty in comparison. > > And, BTW, absence of evidence \*is \*evidence of absence _when that evidence should be apparent_. I’ve known a lot of scientist (and have even been one, myself, back in the day), but I’ve never known one that says things like that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/75 "2017-08-05T23:03:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d like a cite for the proposition that Aquilops could not survive in today’s atmosphere, please. The[first hit](http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis/atmospheric-oxygen-during-dinosaurs-time-much-lower-than-assumed-says-study-215804.html) says the higher oxygen content was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/76 "2017-08-05T23:07:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No one would be likely to mistake an Aquilops for a dragon. St. George might. What else would he [believe it to be?](http://img13.deviantart.net/98b9/i/2015/027/b/0/aquilops_americanus_by_spinosaurus1-d8fnkqq.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/77 "2017-08-05T23:08:42Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > If that isn’t clear enough for you, then you seem to be a lost cause for even the most basic level of scientific understanding. Look, there’s not much of a bright line between Birds and some “dinosaurs” (Birds are a type of dino, after all). There is no reason at all some small dino could not have survived. Not a huge sauropod, sure. But one of the small feathered warmblooded ones? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/78 "2017-08-05T23:18:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, there’s not much of a bright line between Birds and some “dinosaurs” (Birds are a type of dino, after all). There is no reason at all some small dino could not have survived. > > Not a huge sauropod, sure. But one of the small feathered warmblooded ones? Why not? Would small, feathered, warm-blooded ones have perpetuated the myth of dragons and sea-monsters during the Dark Ages? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/79 "2017-08-05T23:45:46Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Would small, feathered, warm-blooded ones have perpetuated the myth of dragons and sea-monsters during the Dark Ages? Maybe for a very small, tiny person. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800/80 "2017-08-05T23:50:41Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Would small, feathered, warm-blooded ones have perpetuated the myth of dragons and sea-monsters during the Dark Ages? No. But we have strayed from the Op, as you know. I was responding to \*“The likelyhoood of surviving dinosaurs is so absolutely insanely astronomically remote that it makes the existence of bigfoot look like an utter certainty in comparison.” \* Now if he had said “Large sauropod dinos” or Tyrannosaurs or stuff bigger than a hippo- sure. But Birds \*are \*dinos. And they survived. Now of course, I am sure Darren Garrison meant “_non Avian_ dinosaurs”. But still, a small, feathered, warm-blooded dino is not unthinkable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-some-dinosaurs-still-existed-during-the-dark-ages/792800.md?page=5)