# Is it possible that illegal immigrants aren't a financial drain on US citizens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658 "2010-04-28T19:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/81 "2010-05-04T02:25:51Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > do you have any evidence of this whatsoever? not that illegals have a harder time suing (which may or may not be true) but that they are paid below minimum wage and/or there are other shenanigans? We already know that illegals contribute a lot of money into SS, which strongly suggests that employers, by and large, aren’t acting in the manner you suggest. Only anecdotal evidence here, but I have a (white and legal) friend who lives in Washington state and he picks cherries every year with a group of illegals. He’s paid about 14 dollars an hour under the table, no taxes or whatever. The illegals are paid less than half that. The minimum wage in Washington is like 9 bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/82 "2010-05-04T19:15:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > On the other hand, dollars must also come back in, because that’s what foreigners do with their dollars eventually. Eventually can be a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/83 "2010-05-04T19:16:52Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If that’s true, though, wouldn’t a growing (native) population then be bad for the economy? As the conservatives keep reminding us, jobs are not a zero sum game except when it comes to illegal immigration (or taxes). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/84 "2010-05-04T19:19:02Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > How much of the cost of illegal immigration is caused by the fact that it is illegal? Because surely legal immigration has some of the same issues in terms of sending money overseas, etc. > > Personally I have no problem with an extremely liberal immigration policy There are credible estimates that there are a BILLION people around the world that would like to emigrate to America. How liberal were you planning on getting? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/85 "2010-05-04T19:25:03Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > But as far as illegal [del]immigration[/del] entry is concerned, my main beef is that it’s unfair to all those people waiting patiently in line for their turn to move to the US legally. That would make more sense to me if immigration opponents were also talking about increasing the immigration quota once we got things under control but that seems to be the part of the Democratic bills that Republicans really have no apetite for. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/86 "2010-05-04T19:29:23Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > So if I’m right, then they _are_ taking jobs from legal citizens who want them. I think if you go to the local fast food joint, they are populated by legal immigrants who are willing to work for minimum wage. With taht said, yes there is displacement and that displacemetn falls heavily on the unskilled uneducated domestic labor force. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/87 "2010-05-04T19:36:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The value of workers is the creation of wealth, which is done through work The money is the store of the value of that created wealth. > [@](#): > > not the allocation of currency, which will inevitably return to the USA in the form of a payment for one service or another. Sending currency overseas decreases domestic demand, but **increases** foreign demand for U.S. goods and services. The money does not have to return in the form of consumption. It can return in the form of investment (in treasuries or google stock for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/88 "2010-05-04T19:45:15Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > at $1160 a month, you’re probably barely able to… Illegal aliens in the construction industry generally make more than minimum wage. Go to your nearest home depot and see how many illegal aliens will hop in your truck with the promise of $7.25/hour. But you can probably get your pick for about $10/hour. 20 years ago, construction workers made $200-$300/day. There are some skill jobs in labbor that have not suffered as much but for the backbreaking heavy lifting, the compensation today is undoubtedly lower than it was 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/89 "2010-05-04T20:02:02Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > when we start artificially limiting the market size with immigration controls, supply and demand analyses start to break down. WUT!?!?! You think that a country regulating its immigration is “artificailly limiting the labor market”? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/90 "2010-05-05T03:28:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As far as the point earlier about teenagers not being able to find jobs: you pooh-pooh the value of that. Yeah. I didn’t get that either. We should welcome illegal aliens. They improve the economy buy buying things. Teenagers can fuck off. All they do is blow their paycheck buying stuff. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658/91 "2010-05-05T17:28:55Z")
I’ve already made my point with regard to Mexico and the drug trade, in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12418294#post12418294). But I was struck by the presence of these two lines in the same post there. > [@How much farther do we let Mexico slide toward being a defacto narco state before we step in?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-farther-do-we-let-mexico-slide-toward-being-a-defacto-narco-state-before-we-step-in/538248/71): > > - > > Criminalizing something creates criminals. \* > … > of course illegal immigrants aren’t “equal” to law abiding citizens, _they’re here illegally_ Hmm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-illegal-immigrants-arent-a-financial-drain-on-us-citizens/537658.md?page=4)