# Is it possible that Tesla's recent complications stem from Elon Musk's toxicity? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [April 27, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290 "2023-04-27T20:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/21 "2023-04-28T21:09:18Z")
Republican != MAGA. Or are all Republicans MAGA now? I left my Biden cheat sheet at home. Of course Musk’s ‘antics’ hurt Tesla. Tesla has been more than anything a lifestyle vehicle for Democrats. California is by far the largest market for Tesla in America. Democrats now dislike Elon Musk, and the ‘lifestyle’ or virtue signalling value of a Tesla has now dropped to zero for those people (or negative, based on the mea culpa bumper sticker mentioned above). I’m not sure competition from other manufactuers is a problem. Most reviews of other EVs always point out that traveling long distances is no where near as painless as it is in a Tesla. Some EVs like the Lightning have had their gloss wear off as the reality of living with them becomes clear. Others are suffering from cost increases and supply chain woes that Tesla does not have due to its vertical integration strategy and aggressive use of alternatives to rare earths and otherh contested materials. I think the entire EV market is in trouble. Ford has lost billions on EVs, and I’ll bet the other major car manufacturers have as well. The era of easy momey is over, interest rate increases make cars more expensive, a recession is coming and supply issues and inflation are driving up prices. Tesla is trying to get in front of it by lowering prices as others raise theirs. And even with their price drops, Tesla still makes more money per car than any other manufacturer. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/22 "2023-04-28T21:29:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > virtue signalling value of a Tesla I actually agree with most of your post, except this ridiculous phrase. Many liberals want an environmentally friendly car. With solar or other green electricity, Tesla was the first major option, and a pretty good, albeit expensive one. You are also right that taking long trips with a Tesla is currently much easier than with other EVs. None of this is virtue signaling. In fact, it’s pretty much a meaningless phrase like “democrat party” and “woke,” is essentially just a right wing slur. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/23 "2023-04-28T21:42:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > None of this is virtue signaling. In fact, it’s pretty much a meaningless phrase like “democrat party” and “woke,” is essentially just a right wing slur. If that were the case, the ‘antics’ of Musk wouldn’t matter at all. The car would be the same, with the same benefits and drawbacks. But people are now saying they’ll never buy a Tesla, because of Musk. So clearly people are into Teslas for more than just their numerical advantages. After all, no one stops buying Chevy because the head of GM is a Democrat/Republican/Maga, because those vehicles carry no social status in the first place. It used to be that driving up in a Tesla meant you cared about the Earth, that you were on the cutting edge of EVs, that you had something in common with the other liberals buying Teslas. That had value. Now, the same people don’t want to be seen in their Tesla for fear that people will think they somehow support Elon Musk. Hence the ‘mea culpa’ bumper sticker. Call it what you want. Virtue signalling, Veblen good, status seeking, whatever. That’s always been part of Tesla’s brand, and Musk is killing it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/24 "2023-04-28T21:45:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If that were the case, the ‘antics’ of Musk wouldn’t matter at all. The car would be the same, with the same benefits and drawbacks. But people are now saying they’ll never buy a Tesla, because of Musk I disagree. I bought a car I wanted without thinking much about the founder of the company (or whatever Musk was). Tesla != Musk in those days, at least to me. Now, Musk is highly visible and highly obnoxious. I don’t wish to buy his cars. Not because of how others might perceive me, but because I’d rather not support this guy. (and I have lots of option now) > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Call it what you want. Virtue signalling, Veblen good, status seeking, whatever. That’s always been part of Tesla’s brand, and Musk is killing it. Yes, Musk is killing it. No doubt. Let’s just not say people bought these cars as some sort of virtue signaling. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/25 "2023-04-28T22:56:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes, Musk is killing it. No doubt. Let’s just not say people bought these cars as some sort of virtue signaling. The virtue signaling is the hatred that started when he bought Twitter. he went from a god on this board to pariah overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/26 "2023-04-28T23:00:35Z")
You fuck one sheep… ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/27 "2023-04-28T23:08:55Z")
This is a factually deficit statement. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/28 "2023-04-28T23:19:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The virtue signaling is the hatred that started when he bought Twitter. he went from a god on this board to pariah overnight. Even if that were true, (and I don’t believe it is) that would not be virtue signaling. It would be not liking Musk anymore. _Virtue signaling_, as used by the right (who are the only ones who use the term) is simply an insult and one we should try to avoid. Personally, I don’t care what Musk does to Twitter. I despise Twitter. But I am troubled by other things he has said. That doesn’t make me “woke” or a virtue signaler. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/29 "2023-04-28T23:48:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Republican != MAGA. Or are all Republicans MAGA now? They’re either MAGA or pretending to be. Those who are vocally not MAGA get primaried by someone who is. Liz Cheney is example number 1 but there’ve been several others. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think the entire EV market is in trouble. Ford has lost billions on EVs, and I’ll bet the other major car manufacturers have as well. Tesla burned through several billions before they became profitable. Other EV-only manufacturers are still in that capital-burning phase. So the fact that Ford and other legacy manufacturers are also burning capital on EVs is not necessarily a sign of trouble in the market. Once they get their sales up and their costs down, they’ll make money on them too. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/30 "2023-04-28T23:49:46Z")
[Here’s a thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-hate-for-elon-musk/961053) that started a little few months pre-Twitter, if anyone cares. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/31 "2023-04-29T00:35:50Z")
Yeah, I feel it was around 2018 that the tide really started turning for him around here. For example: > [@Elon Musk, Why Don't You Go To Fucking Hell?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-why-dont-you-go-to-fucking-hell/818055): > > Elon Musk, just fuck off already. You don’t know if that dude was a pedo or not. Or if you do know, maybe you’re a pedo too, and that’s how you know. So anyway, fuck off. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/32 "2023-04-29T01:05:17Z")
Hey, that’s one of mine! I’m famous! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/33 "2023-04-29T01:39:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Republican != MAGA. Or are all Republicans MAGA now? > **[Most Republicans would vote for Trump even if he's convicted of a crime, poll...](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/25/1171660997/poll-republicans-trump-president-convicted-crime)** > > Rank-and-file GOP voters seem largely undeterred by the multiple criminal investigations against the former president. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/34 "2023-07-28T19:23:25Z")
I’m not sure which Tesla / Musk thread to post this to, but it won’t be helping sell more Teslas, that’s for sure. > **[Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/)** > > About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/35 "2023-07-28T19:40:15Z")
Speaking directly to the OP: > **[Disapproval of Elon Musk is top reason Tesla owners are selling, survey says](https://electrek.co/2023/07/27/disapproval-elon-musk-top-reason-tesla-owners-selling-survey/)** > > The disapproval of Elon Musk is the top reason Tesla Model 3 owners are selling their electric vehicles and going... The author of the following article tries to find other reasons for Tesla’s backlog drop last December and doesn’t mention at all the Musk-Twitter thing that happened just before that. > **[Tesla's Order Backlog Has Dropped Massively In 2023 — Why Is That? -...](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/27/teslas-order-backlog-has-dropped-massively-in-2023-why-is-that/)** > > Troy Teslike has tracked the Tesla order backlog for years. Something changed massively in December. The order backlog dropped from 190,000 to 74,000. One might think the order backlog would bounce up again as the year went on, since there’s often a... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/36 "2024-04-15T14:28:37Z")
> **[Tesla will lay off more than 10% of global workforce: Read the Elon Musk memo](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/15/tesla-shares-dip-in-premarket-trade-on-global-layoff-reports.html)** > > Tesla will lay off more than 10% of its global workforce. Read the memo to employees from CEO Elon Musk. > **[Tesla lays off 'more than 10%' of its global workforce](https://electrek.co/2024/04/15/tesla-lays-off-more-than-10-of-its-global-workforce/)** > > The layoffs were announced in a company-wide email, after rumors they could reach as high as 20% of Tesla's ~140,000 global headcount. So is this a Tesla problem or a problem in the EV market? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/37 "2024-04-15T14:47:32Z")
I already have trouble with my computer receiving “updates” without my permission. I also have trouble with the amount of information about me that is collected, sold, and re-sold about me by my phone and computer. I don’t want my car doing that too. Having learned how much info Tesla collects, and how draconian their “update” policies are, I want nothing to do with it. I sure as heck don’t want a man as mercurial as Musk having that much power over me. He really could conceivably just merge a few databases and then turn off (err . . “update”) the cars of all Democrat voters on election day. I used to dream of buying a Tesla, now I dream of a Rivian. Not sure whether I’ll ever again be in the market to buy one, but I’m betting there are a substantial number of people like me who just don’t trust Musk with that level of control in their lives. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/38 "2024-04-15T14:51:26Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I think it’s complicated, but Musk’s negative public image is certainly part of it. I recently saw a picture of a Model 3 with a bumper sticker that said something similar to “I bought before I knew what he was like”. If knew where I’d seen it, I’d link it. [![](https://i.insider.com/64f757be7819260019117619?width=1200&format=jpeg) ](https://i.insider.com/64f757be7819260019117619?width=1200&format=jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/39 "2024-04-15T15:05:37Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I can tell you that a year ago I was pondering buying a Tesla, but after becoming acquainted with Musk via his Twitter-related idiocy, I’ll never give him a dollar of my money, and I’ll never trust any product with his fingerprints on it. This is pretty much how I feel as well. I once thought that Musk was a visionary genius, but his words and actions over the last decade have caused me to first question and reappraise my opinion of him, and to then actively do everything in my power to avoid supporting him or any company he is associated with. Not only have I lost confidence in him, I actively distrust him and likely wouldn’t even ride in a Tesla, much less purchase one. From “visionary genius” to “malevolent sociopath” in less than ten years, at least in my mind. Pretty impressive accomplishment, there. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290/40 "2024-04-15T15:12:39Z")
EV sales are less vigorous, but Tesla’s market share has seen a considerable drop. > **[EV Sales Growing Slower; Tesla's Market Share Falls - Kelley Blue Book](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/ev-sales-growing-slower-teslas-market-share-falls/)** > > EV sales grew last quarter, but not as quickly as they did the quarter before. Tesla's market share slipped to about 51%. I suspect Tesla’s problems are related more to competition than to Musk’s toxicity, but that can’t have helped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-that-teslas-recent-complications-stem-from-elon-musks-toxicity/983290.md?page=3)