# Is it possible to be both a goth and a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483 "2003-05-25T23:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StanDup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@StanDup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StanDup)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/1 "2003-05-25T23:44:22Z")
Is it possible to be both a goth and a Christian? I am a very confused person. Don’t kill me. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/2 "2003-05-25T23:56:10Z")
Well, what is there about being goth that conflicts with Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![StanDup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@StanDup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StanDup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/3 "2003-05-26T00:00:07Z")
So I guess you can? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/4 "2003-05-26T00:10:34Z")
What exactly does being a goth involve nowadays? If there’s something in there about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, or spitting on Bibles, then there it might be a tough line to tread, but if it is just about dressing in black and sitting about looking pale and undernourished, then it might be a bit easier. Seriously, what does ‘being a goth’ actually entail? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/5 "2003-05-26T00:20:23Z")
Of course, some of the most wonderful cathedrals in Europe are Gothic and prior to around 1970, a priest who did not want to die of heat prostation while celebrating mass in August would often choose a Gothic chasuble (rather than the full-covering and enormously heavy Dalmation style). Seems to me that there is room for goth in Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![penny\_dreadful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@penny\_dreadful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penny_dreadful)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/6 "2003-05-26T00:39:27Z")
Okay, not helpful, but this is the first thing I thought of when I read the thread title: [Jesus was Gother than You.](http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/index.html) Seriously, though, I see no conflict. I’ve had a couple of friends who identified themselves as both goth and Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Forbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forbin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/7 "2003-05-26T02:05:18Z")
Sorry Topaz, I know you mean well, but you sorta hit my pet peeve here. “Goth” also known as Gothic **is** a quintessentially Christian style. Good grief, this bugs the dickens outta me! ☹ Boys and girls with dyed hair are not “goth” Notre Dame Cathedral is Goth(ic), and how! The myriad symbols of Gothic architecture are fundimentally Christian. \ I gotta switch to decaf ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/8 "2003-05-26T02:14:30Z")
[Certainly.](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15120c.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/9 "2003-05-26T02:49:17Z")
Yes. But I’m more than a little curious to know what you think “goth” entails. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/10 "2003-05-26T02:52:53Z")
It happened… In my town. I do have an odd town, though. It was a group of teens that eventually ended up breaking apart. I know one or two of them well… They don’t make reference to their “goth/christian” years much. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/11 "2003-05-26T03:17:39Z")
Some say yes, sort of [- ChristianGoth.com](http://www.christiangoth.com/) [sub] > [@](#): > > “statement of faith” > > i serve the God of abraham, issac, and jacob, the God who is known as YHWH, and He is my Father. His son, Jesus the Christ, is my king and my master. all that i do, i do in His service. > > this page was created with the intent of providing a haven for people who have found the Truth through the Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ). some may call me a Christian, a word which has many contrary meanings in the modern world. a word which leaves a bitter sting in the mouth of many non Believers. > > unfortunately, the true message of Salvation is usually obscured by the haze of hate emanating from the mouths of infidels, second to only the hypocrisy that is so evident in many Christian’s lives. this kind of false testimony has been very damaging. one of my greatest aims in life is to show non-Believers that the Truth behind the Christian religion is Christ Himself, not the Church or other “Christians.” [/sub] and some say no - [A youth subculture](http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/g04.html) > [@](#): > > Unlike some youth subcultures that believe in God but reject organized religion, goths often reject God but keep religious trappings, Hart said. Most religious goths are self-styled practitioners of Wicca, an ancient Celtic nature religion, he said, while others dabble in spiritualism, a religion that tries to communicate with the dead through seances. I am primarily an athiest, but having met numerous Goths and discussed philosophy and religion at length with some of them, it strikes me the mean 'ol [gospel.com](http://gospel.com) definition above “A youth subcluture” is probably closer to the real world mark for most Goths, though certainly not all. To the extent that “Goth” for someone is simply a music, fashion and lifestyle preference the answer is yes to compatibility if being a Goth does not conflict with the central pillars of Christianity (ie God-Jesus-New testament narrative etc). To the extent that Goth’s (or anyone) wants to pick and choose and start blending alternative spiritual authorities with the Christian model of faith the answer is that it is incompatible and non-Christian. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/12 "2003-05-26T03:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Good grief, this bugs the dickens outta me! So, you’re proposing omitting The Mystery of Edwin Drood from the canon? ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/13 "2003-05-26T03:28:18Z")
Depends on what you mean by ‘goth’, as everyone else has said. The modern gothic culture (as opposed to the Northern Germanic one of the first centuries AD) is centred around a mindset projecting that life is meaningless and painful, that hope is futile and that depression and ennui are to be reveled in. The only part of that which can really mesh neatly with Christianity is that life is pain - and you’re expected to believe that there’s a better one around the corner. So no, fundamentally they’re not really all that compatible. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/14 "2003-05-26T04:15:48Z")
Prolly depends if you’re in it for the fabulous clothes and makeup or the angst, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/15 "2003-05-26T04:28:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Most religious goths are self-styled practitioners of Wicca, an ancient Celtic nature religion [An SD column from 1999](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a991029.html) dispels the myth that Wicca is even remotely ancient - it’s a 20th-century invention. Not too important, just interesting in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/16 "2003-05-26T13:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Prolly depends if you’re in it for the fabulous clothes and makeup or the angst, ya know? \*\* I agree with this! I love clothes and accessories that could be called “goth” - ie, I have a black leather trench coat, lots of spiky jewellery and a dog collar, but it’s just a style, isn’t it? I happen to like clothes that have this sort of appearance, and I happen to like some music that could be considered “goth”, but that’s all it is. Religion-wise, I’m an agnostic, but I don’t think it would have made much difference if I were a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/17 "2003-05-26T13:46:55Z")
Well, first of all, Wicca is not an “ancient nature religion.” It’s a recent innovation that adopts some of its tenets from a variety of animist/pagan/nature-faith sources. Television is older than Wicca. Secondly, asking if you can be Christian and Goth is like asking if you can be Christian and a hockey fan. “Goth” isn’t a religion, it’s basically a pretty awful style of dress combined with teenaged poetry, white makeup, and a particular style of music. Unless wearing black clothing’s prohibited in the Bible, I don’t see a lot of conflict there. I don’t think that on your Day of Judgment, God is going to be all that concerned about what clothes you wore. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/18 "2003-05-26T14:00:08Z")
It’s interesting that the goth subculture is the only one I can think of right now which borrows heavily from the symbols and metaphors of Christianity. I know it’s because the goth movement is supposed to be partially for historically interested types, but it interesting that in such a secularized age, where so few young people know anything about Western religious tradition, that goth-ism depends so heavily on a religion which most goths purport to despise. Having said that (and it was a terrible sentence. Sorry) I personally know four goth-type Christians: me, my husband, and a couple of my friends. We listen to goth music, wear black, purple, leather and vinyl, and go to goth clubs. We’re all religiously conservative. We don’t see any contradiction, because we fundamentally disagree with some of the philosophy, but enjoy certain elements of being goth. So we take the parts we like, and stand ready to debate about the parts we don’t. If it makes us “cafeteria goths” that’s fine with me. 😃 I’ll write more later- got to get to work. ---
**Author:** ![Smartlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@Smartlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartlady)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/19 "2003-05-26T22:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Loneraven \* > \*\*I love clothes and accessories that could be called “goth” - ie, I have a black leather trench coat, lots of spiky jewellery and a dog collar, but it’s just a style, isn’t it? I happen to like clothes that have this sort of appearance, and I happen to like some music that could be considered “goth”, but that’s all it is. \*\* Okay, I was listening to this show on Yes Fm (radio station- fm- 98.3) Called Dawson McAllister live. They talk about issues concerning teenagers. One of the topics were, “Can you dress like Britney Spears and still have a relationship with God?” Short answer is no. Any style is the work of the devil. If your gothic, your following a trend, with is bad. You can’t follow trends and still have any relationship with God. ---
**Author:** ![Smartlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@Smartlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartlady)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/20 "2003-05-26T22:27:21Z")
Sorry, I ment 89.3, not 98.3 😛 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483.md?page=2)