# Is it possible to be both a goth and a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 25, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483 "2003-05-25T23:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/21 "2003-05-26T23:12:54Z")
It depends on how you are a goth and how you are a Christian. Both can be pretty flexable definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/22 "2003-05-26T23:27:33Z")
“Gothic” architecture has nothing to do with the Goths; it’s just a label somebody came up with in a recent century. I’ve read that when the Goths controlled Italy, they were religiously tolerant, which of course pissed some people off. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/23 "2003-05-27T00:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smartlady \* > \*\*Okay, I was listening to this show on Yes Fm (radio station- fm- 98.3) Called Dawson McAllister live. They talk about issues concerning teenagers. One of the topics were, “Can you dress like Britney Spears and still have a relationship with God?” Short answer is no. Any style is the work of the devil. If your gothic, your following a trend, with is bad. You can’t follow trends and still have any relationship with God. \*\* Umm… and you laughed at such brazen idiocy, right? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/24 "2003-05-27T01:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > “Gothic” architecture has nothing to do with the Goths I buhlieve thet was what’s known as a joke, son. The link from the early tribes invading Europe to the current alternative fashion scene tends to have followed the following path (presented in schematic form that necessarily introduces errors to the narrative): People named Goth invade Europe, irritating many people. Later, a style of architecture arose in the North that, in its earlier forms, was regarded as ugly by the people to the South who dubbed it Gothic as though it was barbaric. The Gothic style matured and advanced, however, to the point where it actually achieved a true beauty. Eventually, that style moved out of the public buildings and into private dwellings. Later still, the private dwellings came to be viewed as old fashioned (as, of course, they were by then) and, in the nineteenth century, several novels were written with such “Gothic” dwellings as locations. The novels were frequently set in gloomy surroundings with plots that matched the gloom and the term Gothic was then applied to that style of writing. More recently, the clothing fashion (accompanied, to a certain extent, by the trappings of lifestyle) borrowed the gloomy and colorless atmosphere of the novels (and some movies based on those novels) and came to be called goth. So, there is and is not a connection between the architecture and the current clothing. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/25 "2003-05-27T01:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*I buhlieve thet was what’s known as a joke, son. > > The link from the early tribes invading Europe to the current alternative fashion scene tends to have followed the following path (presented in schematic form that necessarily introduces errors to the narrative): > > People named Goth invade Europe, irritating many people. > Later, a style of architecture arose in the North that, in its earlier forms, was regarded as ugly by the people to the South who dubbed it Gothic as though it was barbaric. > The Gothic style matured and advanced, however, to the point where it actually achieved a true beauty. > Eventually, that style moved out of the public buildings and into private dwellings. > Later still, the private dwellings came to be viewed as old fashioned (as, of course, they were by then) and, in the nineteenth century, several novels were written with such “Gothic” dwellings as locations. The novels were frequently set in gloomy surroundings with plots that matched the gloom and the term Gothic was then applied to that style of writing. > More recently, the clothing fashion (accompanied, to a certain extent, by the trappings of lifestyle) borrowed the gloomy and colorless atmosphere of the novels (and some movies based on those novels) and came to be called goth. > > So, there is and is not a connection between the architecture and the current clothing. \*\* Gosh Tom, [James Burke](http://www.palmersguide.com/jamesburke/) should be jealous. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/26 "2003-05-27T03:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \* > \*\*as opposed to the Northern Germanic one of the first centuries AD \*\* \ Does anyone else think that they ought to have made the Goths in **Titus** (the Hopkins version)look goth in the modern sense of the word? It was an sureal and abstract movie to begin with, so it wouldn’t have clashed. \ If a person with a mullet (Mullets for Jesus!) can be christan surely a goth can too. Now, people who wear those backless sneakers, I’m not so sure about… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/27 "2003-05-27T03:28:08Z")
Yeah, but would they be the Ostrogoths or the Visigoths? ---
**Author:** ![Forbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Forbin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/28 "2003-05-27T03:32:38Z")
Quoting tomndebb _was regarded as ugly by the people to the South who dubbed it Gothic as though it was barbaric."_ That would be Giorgio Vasari. ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/29 "2003-05-27T06:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smartlady > Okay, I was listening to this show on Yes Fm (radio station- fm- 98.3) Called Dawson McAllister live. They talk about issues concerning teenagers. One of the topics were, “Can you dress like Britney Spears and still have a relationship with God?” Short answer is no. Any style is the work of the devil. If your gothic, your following a trend, with is bad. You can’t follow trends and still have any relationship with God. Um…with all due respect, EVERYONE follows one trend or another. Whether you wear boot-cut jeans or straight-legged, skirts, use mosturizing lotion, cut your hair, don’t cut your hair because of God, buy the latest study Bible or stick with the King James version, you’re following a trend of some kind. Also, do you believe everything you hear on the radio? No offense meant, but I’m familiar with Dawson McAllister, and while he’s nowhere near what I’d call dangerous, I still wouldn’t give all his words infallibility. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/30 "2003-05-27T11:48:02Z")
The modern use of goth refers chiefly to a musical offshoot of punk (one might argue goth is a revisionist history of some punk bands and the most canonical goth bands didn’t think of themselves as such… wanting to be a “goth band” came later). From the fans of the music came the fashion (although it probably would have happened anyway), and ever since the early 80’s it’s been a self-sustaining thing. Goth is as goth does. Plenty of them are Christian… ideologically goth is pretty empty since it’s mainly about music and fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/31 "2003-05-27T12:28:00Z")
Sometimes it’s about wanting to be a vampire, too. Or really thinking they _are_ vampires. Those people are pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/32 "2003-05-28T02:25:44Z")
Yeah, I saw some guy on SciFi talking about how he drank blood and stuff. I just rolled my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/33 "2003-05-28T04:25:57Z")
And people wonder why I get so annoyed when someone tries to tell me I’m a Goth. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/34 "2003-05-28T04:50:51Z")
You guys are just jealous because you’re not 800 years old, like me… Hang on, my mom’s calling me. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/35 "2003-05-28T16:35:58Z")
I’m genuinely surprised that Dawson McAllister said that. I used to go to his conferences as a teenager, he was great. Anyhow, Topaz, there is no such thing as a “normal” or “average” Christian. We come from all walks of life. Who has a better chance of reaching the Goth community for Jesus … you, or your run of the mill Christian who doesn’t even know what a Goth IS? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/36 "2003-05-28T20:44:47Z")
[Jesus was Gother than ALL of you.](http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/jesus/proof/) ---
**Author:** ![Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercury)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/37 "2003-05-29T12:51:43Z")
Well, I’m a Christian, but I sure as heck love Marilyn Manson, The Sisters of Mercy, black clothes, black eyeliner, and read Poe like there’s no tomorrow. I also have highlighted blonde hair, long acrylic nails and I _love_ to shop at Express. I think you can be pretty much anything you want. -M ---
**Author:** ![Pixelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Pixelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixelle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/38 "2003-05-29T13:36:32Z")
It definately depends on the individual enterpretation of goth. About 15 years ago I was probably what most people would recognize now as goth. I looked like a goth with the seemingly compulsory wardrobe full of black clothes but more important than the clothes, for me it was more about the music and the lifestyle. Basically it was a lifestyle of negativity and an unhealthy obsession with death and the dark side. It had very little to do with christianity. In fact just mentioning the ‘C’ word to me was like holding up a cross to a vampire. There’s no way in the world I would have thought you could be a goth christian. But being a goth doesn’t have to entail all that dark stuff. It’s whatever it means to _you_ and if that involves being a goth that believes in christianity then so be it! And don’t listen to anyone else trying to tell you otherwise. Actually thinking about it, if I’d have been a christian myself at the time it may have been a good buffer against all the negativity and probably done me some good…who knows 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483/39 "2003-05-29T13:49:31Z")
Hmm…I am I guess ‘goth’. And have been since the early 80’s. I have met people who would call themselves Christian (usually Catholic) who are Goths. Frankly, religion has little to no bearing on your choice of fashion or music. I hope. Lifestyle-wise, you wold probably get as many answers as there are people who dress in black. Hell of a lot of dancing though 🙂 And for many, a rejection of what can be seen as the hypocrisy of values in todays society. “To thine own self be true” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-both-a-goth-and-a-christian/177483.md?page=1)