# Is it possible to be racist against AIs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946 "2025-10-13T23:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/181 "2025-11-21T02:44:42Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > We don’t know they are impossible. They violate the laws of physics. Unlike AGIs, which would require new physics to _not_ be possible. _We_ exist, after all. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/182 "2025-11-21T03:03:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They violate the laws of physics. Yup that’s a pretty compelling argument, just as the fact digital computers are deterministic automatons that are entirely unlike intelligent organic brains is a pretty compelling argument against AGI The fact is neither thing exists, and may never exist. Toasters are as incapable of being victims of racism as AIs are. That’s a trivially correct statement. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/183 "2025-11-21T03:17:31Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Yup that’s a pretty compelling argument, just as the fact digital computers are deterministic automatons that are entirely unlike intelligent organic brains is a pretty compelling argument against AGI Humans are intelligent beings, therefore human level intelligence is possible. You are in the position of someone in the past arguing that heavier than air flight is impossible, while someone else points at a bird. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/184 "2025-11-21T03:35:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Humans are intelligent beings, therefore human level intelligence is possible. You are in the position of someone in the past arguing that heavier than air flight is impossible, while someone else points at a bird Seems like a perfectly plausible counter argument. Again, wizards and AGI don’t seem too currently exist. There are compelling arguments as to why neither wizards nor AGI will ever exist. Some people disagree with those arguments. Neither concept is a good reason why toasters or AI can be the victims of racism ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2025, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/185 "2025-11-21T09:35:57Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Again, wizards and AGI don’t seem too currently exist. There are compelling arguments as to why neither wizards nor AGI will ever exist. No. Wizards are impossible, claiming that AGIs can’t exist is clearly humanocentrism with no basis even in theory, much less fact. They aren’t the same at all. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/186 "2025-11-24T20:16:54Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > that wizards and souls are actually possible > > We don’t know they are impossible. Just like true AGI it’s widely agreed they don’t currently exist (wizards that is not souls). There are some pretty compelling reasons to think they will never exist, though some people disagree with those arguments. I suppose it depends on what your definition of these things are. ---
**Author:** ![tampora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@tampora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tampora)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/187 "2025-12-09T21:43:29Z")
My logic is that if the AI is the recipient of the racism, however inapplicable it may be, that qualifies as being “racist against AIs” by a literal reading of the words. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/188 "2025-12-09T21:57:35Z")
That just makes me think of this old _Onion_ article: > **[I'm Like A Chocoholic, But For Booze](https://theonion.com/im-like-a-chocoholic-but-for-booze-1819583778/)** > > Did you ever know a "chocoholic"? One of those folks who just can’t get enough chocolate? I bet there’s at least one in your home or workplace. At my house, it’s my wife Emily. She’s got to have her little bowl of Hershey’s Kisses in the living room.... It’s not the right term at all, but whatever. Close enough? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/189 "2025-12-09T22:30:24Z")
And that makes me think of this: [![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpL2f23uVgOgNt6orNV51moh4Mk1AzuEnLWw&s) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpL2f23uVgOgNt6orNV51moh4Mk1AzuEnLWw&s) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/190 "2025-12-09T22:30:51Z")
I had forgotten that one. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/191 "2025-12-09T22:30:59Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > One is about,as you say, what kind of personhood actual artifical intelligences of the order of Iain M Banks “Minds” would have, and how we should it recognise it. Actual artificial intelligence on the order of Iain M Banks’ “Minds” would be many orders of magnitude beyond people. They’re basically Gods. We should be asking how _they_ would want to treat _us_, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/192 "2025-12-09T22:34:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think it’s more of a tautology. For those who believe in the existence of a soul, a soul is in every person, and only people have souls. Now I’m imagining a scifi/fantasy story set in a world with magitech (or technomagic?) where scientist-wizards are trying to create an artificial soul. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/193 "2025-12-09T22:36:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Yup that’s a pretty compelling argument, just as the fact digital computers are deterministic automatons that are entirely unlike intelligent organic brains is a pretty compelling argument against AGI What part of your biological brain is not deterministic? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/194 "2025-12-09T22:36:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Now I’m imagining a scifi/fantasy story set in a world with magitech (or technomagic?) where scientist-wizards are trying to create an artificial soul. Heck, that’s the “Spark” in the _Transformers_ franchise; it makes every robot “alive”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/195 "2025-12-09T22:50:42Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Heck, that’s the “Spark” in the _Transformers_ franchise; it makes every robot “alive” Oh, I haven’t seen those movies - I did go on the ride at Universal and I remember something called the “Allspark”, is that related? By the way, did the Transformers get built, or are they “natural” for their home planet? (They come from space, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/196 "2025-12-09T23:04:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Now I’m imagining a scifi/fantasy story set in a world with magitech (or technomagic?) where scientist-wizards are trying to create an artificial soul. A minor plot point in the novel _The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ is that a company is experimenting with artificial souls for those born without them. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/197 "2025-12-09T23:06:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh, I haven’t seen those movies - I did go on the ride at Universal and I remember something called the “Allspark”, is that related? It is related, in the sense that the “AllSpark” is the artifact that gives a Transformer life. That actual life/soul/whatever is called the “spark”. So, one thing creates multiples of the other thing. The AllSpark (and the sparks it creates) is part of all of the media; it features in the films (both animated and live-action), various cartoons, and comic books. It isn’t always talked about in every story, but it exists as part of the lore behind everything. > [@Babale](#): > > By the way, did the Transformers get built, or are they “natural” for their home planet? (They come from space, right?) They originate from planet Cybertron, which is portrayed in the pilot episode of the original series and often referred to multiple times later; the planet has been overrun by the Decepticon antagonists, and the heroic Autobots are fleeing to avoid destruction, and chased across space. In the middle of combat, both groups crash to Earth in the distant past, and hibernate until awoken in modern times. Then they are given new forms by a powerful shipboard computer to be able to masquerade in human society (and then proceed to blow the crap out of each other very publicly in robot form, so I don’t know why they bothered, but whatever). They are built, and they reproduce through being built. Early on in the original cartoon series, the Autobots find dinosaur bones, get curious about what they represent, and learn what dinosaurs are. They think the concept is cool and so they just build the “Dinobots”, which can transform between humanoid robot and dinosaur-shaped robot. That’s basically how all Transformers reproduce; they are built as machines and infused with life as a “spark”. That is how the various media in the franchise draw a distinction between them and regular machines, even those with AI. For example, the computer that rebuilt the Transformers early in the cartoon series is called “Teletraan I”, and was a powerful semi-sentient computer built into the Autobots ship (which they later use for a base). It is a machine with some form of intelligence, but lacking a spark it is treated as a tool, not as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/198 "2025-12-09T23:51:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A minor plot point in the novel _The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump_ is that a company is experimenting with artificial souls for those born without them. I knew I recognized the name of the book but not why - turns out it’s a Turtledove novel! I love his books, but mostly the alt history end. The World War series is my favorite. He’s definitely not the best at prose or at character development, and his plots often follow real world history a little too closely, but his concepts and world building are some of my favorites. A bit like Asimov, I suppose. I haven’t read much of his fantasy type books, but maybe I’ll check that one out. > [@Atamasama](#): > > They originate from planet Cybertron, which is portrayed in the pilot episode of the original series and often referred to multiple times later; the planet has been overrun by the Decepticon antagonists, and the heroic Autobots are fleeing to avoid destruction, and chased across space. In the middle of combat, both groups crash to Earth in the distant past, and hibernate until awoken in modern times. Then they are given new forms by a powerful shipboard computer to be able to masquerade in human society (and then proceed to blow the crap out of each other very publicly in robot form, so I don’t know why they bothered, but whatever). OK, so that explains why they transform into exact copies of specific models of Earth based vehicles. Makes sense, I suppose. Were they already robots before this happened (the planet name Cybertron kind of implies it, but maybe it’s more like nominal predestination?) > [@Atamasama](#): > > They are built, and they reproduce through being built. Early on in the original cartoon series, the Autobots find dinosaur bones, get curious about what they represent, and learn what dinosaurs are. They think the concept is cool and so they just build the “Dinobots”, which can transform between humanoid robot and dinosaur-shaped robot. > > That’s basically how all Transformers reproduce; they are built as machines and infused with life as a “spark”. That is how the various media in the franchise draw a distinction between them and regular machines, even those with AI. Were they being built like this when they all lived on Cybertron? Or did they have to _become_ robotic after they left? And, assuming they were already robots on Cybertron, were they like… Robots who formed around this AllSpark that already existed? Or is it implied (or outright stated) that they were originally created by an earlier race of biological beings? > [@Atamasama](#): > > For example, the computer that rebuilt the Transformers early in the cartoon series is called “Teletraan I”, and was a powerful semi-sentient computer built into the Autobots ship (which they later use for a base). It is a machine with some form of intelligence, but lacking a spark it is treated as a tool, not as a person. OK, I see why you compared the Spark to a Soul, now. So even though this computer was capable of bringing them to Earth and making the decision to reform them so they can transform into Earth cars, they view it as a thing and not a person. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2025, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/199 "2025-12-10T00:03:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What part of your biological brain is not deterministic? All of it. Both practically and theoretically ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946/200 "2025-12-10T00:06:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Were they being built like this when they all lived on Cybertron? Or did they have to _become_ robotic after they left? They were transforming robots to begin with. Before they crashed on Earth, they’d transform into futuristic vehicles. When they woke up on Earth, the computer changed their vehicle forms to match the local vehicles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-be-racist-against-ais/1023946.md?page=11)