# Is it possible to capsize an aircraft carrier? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736 "2016-09-02T00:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/41 "2016-09-08T21:15:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I thought the primary danger to large ships is not the waves washing over the top deck, but the troughs not giving adequate support to the keel. Could be either or both. The Edmund Fitzgerald case is actually an example of that, since the exact cause among structural failure, grounding (in part due to wave action) or waves staving in hatch covers, isn’t known. This analysis found it was a combination of downflooding due to waves washing over the deck (in particular a floating log or other flotsam tearing away some ballast tank vents) which then caused a main hull girder structural failure from the combination of ‘normal’ stress due to the large waves exacerbated by hull stress caused by the flooding. [http://assets1.csc.com/innovation/downloads/Edmund\_Fitzgerald.pdf](http://assets1.csc.com/innovation/downloads/Edmund_Fitzgerald.pdf) Likewise the exact cause of loss of a number of large seagoing bulk carriers in recent decades isn’t certainly known. However those are two fairly different animals. Big ships designed only for Great Lakes trading have much weaker main hull girders than oceangoing ships: the waves on the lakes though they can be high are not as long as ocean waves. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/42 "2016-09-09T00:49:55Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > Galley would have been up and running. We did the same maneuvers and nothing was shut down/stopped. Albeit we never were able to get the ship past 12 degrees. Sometimes, they’ll do it totally randomly to test to see how “secure for sea” everyone is. 12 degrees is nothing. done that in bad weather in a harbor. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/43 "2016-09-11T02:15:07Z")
Damn, I love this board. I hadn’t even considered a trough breaking the keel. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/44 "2016-09-11T15:24:07Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Damn, I love this board. I hadn’t even considered a trough breaking the keel. The number of things on this board normal people have never considered is, indeed, phenomenal. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/45 "2016-09-13T03:06:05Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > The number of things on this board normal people have never considered is, indeed, phenomenal. I plead ignorance of ships and seamanship. Which is why I asked the question and have learned so much from the answers. ---
**Author:** ![idiotwind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@idiotwind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/idiotwind)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/46 "2016-09-14T02:30:23Z")
Today I saw a photo of the new Harmony of the Seas cruise ship. The thing is incredibly tall, and looks like a capsize accident waiting for a big wave. How can it possibly have enough ballast below the water line to stay upright, without being so deep that it would scrape the bottom of ports? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/47 "2016-09-14T04:04:30Z")
It’s mostly air above the water line. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/48 "2016-09-14T08:35:03Z")
> [@idiotwind](#): > > Today I saw a photo of the new Harmony of the Seas cruise ship. The thing is incredibly tall, and looks like a capsize accident waiting for a big wave. How can it possibly have enough ballast below the water line to stay upright, without being so deep that it would scrape the bottom of ports? A 4m[sup]3[/sup] hollow box made out of 10mm steel plate would weigh about 7.5 tonnes A 4m[sup]3[/sup] tank holds about 64 tonnes of water. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/49 "2016-09-14T09:36:56Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > A 4m[sup]3[/sup] hollow box made out of 10mm steel plate would weigh about 7.5 tonnes 😕 I come up with ~1000 kg (1 tonne). How’d you get 7.5 tonnes? ---
**Author:** ![Robrein](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robrein/32/6728_2.png) [@Robrein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robrein)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/50 "2016-09-14T10:31:15Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > 😕 I come up with ~1000 kg (1 tonne). How’d you get 7.5 tonnes? I think he meant a 4m x 4m x 4m box. ie. 64m^3 (he did say 64 tonnes of water). Such a box would be 96m^2 of steel plate and 0.96 m^3 of steel at 10mm thickness. About 7.5 tonnes sounds right. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/51 "2016-09-15T09:34:34Z")
Yeah I kinda totally 'effed that up. Og dammit, 4x4x4m box, not 4m[sup]3[/sup] box. Or, what Robrein said. Sorry :o ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/52 "2016-09-15T13:22:34Z")
Presumably it would be a bit thicker than 10mm, at least lower in the superstructure. It’s got to support numerous decks. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/53 "2016-09-15T16:10:55Z")
Well I don’t know about steel in warships, but certainly in commercial vessels 10mm plate is pretty standard. They rely on shape and beams and so on, not thickness of plate to achieve strength. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/54 "2016-11-21T18:30:09Z")
Two months on, and it occurs to me that I have a coworker who served on the Enterprise (aircraft carrier, damnit). I asked him, and he gave it as his opinion that it would be possible to capsize the ship _under the right circumstances_, those being: [ul][li]A major storm (we’re talking a good-sized hurricane)[/li][li]A more than 15-degree list (see major storm, above)[/li][li]Light on aviation fuel (reducing the ballast considerably and contributing to the list)[/li][li]Hangar doors that were partially or fully open (either because someone didn’t secure them or the waves were strong enough to batter their way in)[/ul][/li]A contributing factor would be if the ship weren’t being steered in the most advantageous way with respect to wave size and wave and wind direction. So, possible, but very, very unlikely, from the sound of it. NOTE: Shagnasty said it was hard to roll one past 7 degrees, but my coworker said he was on the Enterprise when it was listing to 15 degrees. No one allowed on deck for that storm! ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/55 "2016-11-21T18:46:35Z")
Correction: He was on the John F. Kennedy, not the Enterprise. The day it listed 15 or so degrees, they were: “low on fuel oil, low on JP5 avgas, no weapons, no aircraft, double i.e., bailing out of harbor because of a hurricane heading our way. We just got underway to avoid being battered into the quay or run aground if we broke our lines.” ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/56 "2016-11-21T19:57:38Z")
Every ship has a calculated stability role. That is how many degrees the ship can roll and it will return. Beyond that point the it can be questionable. I was on a ship that’s stability roll was 30 degrees and we were rolling on some many waves over 48degrees. Just to reach the stability roll of a carrier would take extream weather conditions that I have a hard time imagining, to exceed I don’t think will happen ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/57 "2016-11-22T00:00:39Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > I’m liking the freak wave theory, someone posted a link above which lead to it. I find it particularly amusing as freak waves were never considered to be real until the 90’s and not studied until like 2005. Yet, anyone who has spent time on the high seas will have seen them. They have even detected them with anything that deals with waves, including optics. So cool. > > There was a cruise ship that was slammed by one on the side, windows gave, and that side was flooded. > > Supposedly, as one had mentioned above, if the keel is not supported then the ship can foul. I’m sure this was part of the design criteria of the ships and probably designed the ships bow accordingly to pierce through to reduce that. > > If you guys are in NYC or any other place that has a Fleet Week, you should take a tour of the ships. The construction is different. It’s not like a cruise ship with flat floors. Imagine a cruise ship that has the internal structure akin to a steel bridge. The fact that so many scientists disputed freak waves, which apparently aren’t all that rare, because their limited math models didn’t support them is terribly sad. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/58 "2016-11-22T19:26:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > [Here is an example of what unusually huge waves look like when they hit a carrier.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVQP6h7psXM)It doesn’t look that bad because the carrier is so big itself but I can promise you that the support ships escorting it are having a much harder time. Why don’t the other ships just coast in the aircraft carrier’s wake? I remember drafting behind larger ships to avoid the wake from cruise ships and freighters. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/59 "2016-11-23T01:04:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why don’t the other ships just coast in the aircraft carrier’s wake? I remember drafting behind larger ships to avoid the wake from cruise ships and freighters. I can’t say for certain. Maybe some of them do sometimes but the support ships don’t usually stay very close to the carrier at all. The whole convoy is usually spread out over a huge area. If you want to see what happens to a smaller (but still huge) warship in very rough seas, check out this short video. It is nothing like the aircraft carrier video and certainly not something I would want any part of. It still doesn’t capsize though. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ctqCJBzNKlc/maxresdefault.jpg "Warship vs Big Waves") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctqCJBzNKlc) ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736/60 "2016-11-23T03:26:59Z")
In a previous post “Morgyn” mentioned jet fuel and ballast. Definitely an issue considering a Nimitz Class carrier carries just short of 4M gallons. And w/regard to its importance, don’t have to look any further back to 1944 when Bull Halsey attempted to refuel his fleet in a typhoon. Cost the Navy three ships and several hundred sailors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-capsize-an-aircraft-carrier/764736.md?page=2)