# Is it possible to get out of this financial hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101 "2010-10-14T06:35:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/61 "2010-10-16T15:46:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why someone is going bankrupt is an important factor. I know people who have gone bankrupt due to catastrophic illness or injury - those aren’t “habits”, they’re bad luck and tripping the circuit breaker of bankruptcy can make a lot of sense. > > On the other hand… if it’s bad habits that lead you into such a hole, yeah, bankruptcy doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Gotta change _that_ to really get out of the hole and stay out. Nicely put. I think the OP kind of buried the lede by mentioning the gambling addiction only way far down in the thread. It sounds encouraging that she’s fighting it with some success. Ideally, I hope she’s getting some support, whether in a 12-step program or some other means. There may also be financial advice on the internet geared specifically to a recovering gambler. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/62 "2010-10-16T16:27:48Z")
Is it possible to get out of this financial hole? Honestly no. Not a chance with the meager little income they are making. Unless they can formulate a plan for one of both of them to get additional training and get a better paying job (or jobs), all the little savings around the edges suggestions in this thread will amount to nothing when the next emergency hits or the bills finally come due. Just as an objective observation per the cell phone example these people are evidently not too bright so any fix is going to involve a LOT of handholding. They need more money and a guardian angel. That’s the bottom line. Unless one (or both) of them can poke their head up and go after a better job this is all going to come a tumbling down. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/63 "2010-10-16T18:37:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I advise againts this, they often then take drastic steps. Like what? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/64 "2010-10-16T18:45:55Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > I advise againts this, they often then take drastic steps. > > Like what? Taking the positiion that you have defaulted, and demanding all the debt- NOW! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/65 "2010-10-16T18:57:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@drachillix](#): > > > > Like what? > > Taking the positiion that you have defaulted, and demanding all the debt- NOW! Or else… what? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/66 "2010-10-16T23:02:55Z")
> [@congodwarf](#): > > **THE TRUCK** > > They got the truck for a very specific reason. After one too many near collision experiences, they got 4WD. They already had smaller, less expensive cars. It’s also very difficult to get out of their neighborhood in the snow without 4WD (this I know from personal experience, I almost didn’t make it out one day). In addition to the 4WD, the truck is reliable and since they both have to be at work at the same time, having a vehicle that is reliable is very important. And, public transportation is a joke in their town. > . Are they living on the side of a mountain in Alaska? Lose the gas guzzling truck and get an economy car. lose the cable. If that’s their lifeline to happiness then you need to start another thread about it. There are an infinite number of fun things to do that don’t cost money. Believe it or not, there are people who don’t have cable. Donate plasma for money. reconsider overtime or a 2nd job on the weekend. Overtime means time-and-a-half. Cell phones should go once they are out of contract. They’ll get them back someday along with cable. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/67 "2010-10-17T00:06:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Taking the positiion that you have defaulted, and demanding all the debt- NOW! > > Or else… what? Wage garnishment, seizure of assets, that sort of ELSE. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/68 "2010-10-17T00:39:20Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Honestly no. Not a chance with the meager little income they are making. I’m actually supporting two people on half the income they’re making. I don’t know if your comment makes me want to laugh or despair. > [@](#): > > Unless they can formulate a plan for one of both of them to get additional training and get a better paying job (or jobs), all the little savings around the edges suggestions in this thread will amount to nothing when the next emergency hits or the bills finally come due. > > Just as an objective observation per the cell phone example these people are evidently not too bright so any fix is going to involve a LOT of handholding. > > They need more money and a guardian angel. That’s the bottom line. Unless one (or both) of them can poke their head up and go after a better job this is all going to come a tumbling down. You may not have noticed, but there is a dearth of “better jobs” for people these days, even those who are highly qualified… They need to make improvements - even if only small ones - with what they have right now. If they can’t do that it’s unlikely a better job will solve the fundamental problems that got them into debt in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/69 "2010-10-17T02:55:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Or else… what? > > Wage garnishment, seizure of assets, that sort of ELSE. Really? In 1994 after my divorce, I walked away from $16,000 worth of credit card debt, including American Express and Citibank cards, among others. I had a couple of years of calls from collection agents, but not one of the credit card companies bothered to get a judgement, which is required to do any of the the things you suggested. After seven years, all those debts disappeared. My credit score is now in the low 800’s. I guess I was just lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/70 "2010-10-17T03:17:14Z")
> [@congodwarf](#): > > Their only frivolous spending each month is $125 for the cable/internet/telephone. She could cancel the cable and internet and save about $100 per month but that is very honestly the only pleasant part of her life. Cut the phone and cable, that is $1500.00 per year. They can go to the public library to use the internet. Use the extra $1500 to pay off the truck early…once the truck is paid for they will have plenty of extra cash to then pay off all the credit cards. In 3 or 4 years or so, they will have no car loan and no credit card bills, and they can get back the phone and cable. NOt so hard to do. 4 years is not so bad. Lots of people go to prison for 4 years, or go to war for 4 years, and got thru it ok. How many American young men in WW2 went without cable tv and without a phone for 4 years and still came out ok in the end? I didnt read any of the other comments, just the first OP, because that is all the info I need to fix this families budget. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/71 "2010-10-17T03:25:36Z")
**Susanann** ’s point about “3 or 4 years” is important - these folks are NOT going to be debt-free in 6 months. Not gonna happen. It will take a few _years_ to climb out of the hole. But it CAN be done, and after 6-12 months they could see a difference, and maybe feel less stressed over the matter. I remember a point my parents got into financial trouble - took them the better part of 10 years to get out of debt, but they did it. About 15 years ago my husband and I decided to get rid of our debt - we took about 6 years. This isn’t done over night, but it really CAN be done. It’s not magic, just persistence and sticking to a budget. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/72 "2010-10-17T04:49:31Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > Or else… what? > > Wage garnishment, seizure of assets, that sort of ELSE. Yes, and also they could just demand all the money now, take the car, etc. True, **Fea** r- sometimes they do nothing, but your tale is from 1994, and today is a lot different. Creditors come after dudes with a vengance today. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/73 "2010-10-17T11:30:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > > Wage garnishment, seizure of assets, that sort of ELSE. > > Yes, and also they could just demand all the money now, take the car, etc. They can’t do anything until they take you to court and win a judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/74 "2010-10-17T14:19:41Z")
Getting taken to court whether they win or lose will do nothing to lower these folks’ stress level. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/75 "2010-10-17T14:23:23Z")
Getting taken to court is also going to be expensive, whether they win or lose. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/76 "2010-10-17T16:05:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@astro](#): > > > > Honestly no. Not a chance with the meager little income they are making. > > I’m actually supporting two people on half the income they’re making. I don’t know if your comment makes me want to laugh or despair. > > > [@](#): > > > > Unless they can formulate a plan for one of both of them to get additional training and get a better paying job (or jobs), all the little savings around the edges suggestions in this thread will amount to nothing when the next emergency hits or the bills finally come due. > > > > Just as an objective observation per the cell phone example these people are evidently not too bright so any fix is going to involve a LOT of handholding. > > > > They need more money and a guardian angel. That’s the bottom line. Unless one (or both) of them can poke their head up and go after a better job this is all going to come a tumbling down. > > You may not have noticed, but there is a dearth of “better jobs” for people these days, even those who are highly qualified… > > They need to make improvements - even if only small ones - with what they have right now. If they can’t do that it’s unlikely a better job will solve the fundamental problems that got them into debt in the first place. You can survive on next to nothing if - 1: You are canny enough to take advantage of every resource available to minimize expenses and take advantage of govt support programs. 2: Your debt load is very small or you are a wiz with mad skills at negotiating with debtors. If I read the OP correctly there are also two minor children involved so we’re talking 4 people and everyday living expenses, a trailer payment, a car payment and a slug of credit card debt with 2 people working 40 hours a week each making just over $30,000 a year _total together_, or viewed another way both are making just a bit more than minimum wage. The mother has some sort of gambling issue and based on the cell phone example they are not firing on all cylinders. They are teetering and are one health issue or one emergency away from bankruptcy. They can’t just dump the car, or the trailer, or the CC debt. They need more money period. If both adults can only handle these very low paying jobs there’s is no magic that’s going to get them out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/77 "2010-10-17T16:24:48Z")
Oh, I agree with that assessment, and their biggest liability is that credit card debt. If they didn’t have that they’d be a couple hundred a month _ahead_ of their basic food-shelter-utilities-clothing bills. If they didn’t have that debt they could, conceivably, put away $500/month, or $6,000 a year. That would be a heck of a rainy day fund, wouldn’t it? Which is why someone like Dave Ramsey is so negative about debt, it really is a killer if you’re low income. Won’t say I’m entirely debt-free, but my debt payments are under $100 a month and half of it will be gone by December. I don’t have a gambling problem, I don’t smoke, I give up the booze when money is tight (not that I drink much even when the money is rolling in), I’m healthy, uninjured (remember - the OP folks both have injuries they’re getting over), able and willing to work overtime… my spouse is, unfortunately disabled and not able to work but at least he doesn’t have expensive bad habits either and he’s able to support my working by helping around the house, managing our budget, etc. We’re organized, resourceful, thrifty, educated… yes, we have a few advantages. But let’s get real - no matter how well I’m doing at managing my life I, too, am just one emergency away from bankruptcy. A few weeks ago our roof caught fire during a repair and while fortunately it was quickly put out and the damage was both minor and cosmetic, we also weren’t that far from the whole place burning down and me and the husband and our three birds standing out on the curb (him in just underwear and socks) while all our worldly possessions and everything we ever worked for reduced to ashes. There are some things you just can’t plan for and just can’t manage away, no matter how functional you are as human beings. Yes, the OP folks are closer to the edge than I am, but that doesn’t mean they can’t pull away from it, or that small, incremental steps aren’t worth while. There are been times in my life I was in a hole as bad as the OP folks and just a _small_ improvement was a big deal. As for the jobs - I have a four-year college degree and four years ago I was earning 50k a year with fantastic benefits. I am currently working minimum wage NOT because that’s all I’m capable of (though I fear some people believe that now) but because _that’s all that I’ve been able to find_. Well, the Census paid better, but that’s over with until 2020. Yes, _absolutely_ if they can get higher-paying jobs they should. If they can work overtime they should. But if they _CAN’T_ bring more money in they’ll have to find a way to make do with what they have. It sounds like they CAN cover the bills right now, although there is nothing leftover at the end of the month. OK, FIRST step, even before they get another job, is to tighten the belt a little further and figure out how start reducing debt/saving for emergencies with their current salary. If they can do that then they can feel they’re making _some_ progress. Then, if they do get more income, they will make progress even faster. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/78 "2010-10-17T16:29:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > True, **Fea** r- sometimes they do nothing, but your tale is from 1994, and today is a lot different. Creditors come after dudes with a vengance today. I would like to see some statistics that support that claim. My gut reaction is you are less likely to be taken to court today, because the sheer numbers of credit card defaults has skyrocketed. Credit card companies cannot afford to pursue every default into court. If you have significant assets, you might be at higher risk of a lawsuit, but the courts are not going to permit unsecured creditors to take people’s houses and cars. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/79 "2010-10-17T17:09:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Yes, and also they could just demand all the money now, take the car, etc. > > They can’t do anything until they take you to court and win a judgement. They don;t need a judgement to repo the car. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101/80 "2010-10-17T18:18:49Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > To Broomsticks “picking up cans” suggestions, there are a lot of paid survey sites, MyPoints, Sunshine Rewards, etc. on the internet where its possible to pick up $10-15 a month clicking around. A garage sale would help. List of legitimate companies that pay to take online surveys: > **[Best United State Paid Survey Sites for Money - Top Paid Surveys USA](https://mysurvey123.com/united-states-paid-surveys-list/)** > > Join these best legitimate US paid surveys sites and take online surveys for money! Earn cash (paypal or check), gift cards & other rewards! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-get-out-of-this-financial-hole/557101.md?page=5)