# Is it possible to have a national anthem that isnt militaristic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157 "2017-03-27T18:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/1 "2017-03-27T18:02:54Z")
Is it? I’m thinking “The Star Spangled Banner” or “Le Marseillaise” or “God Save the Queen”. Even “Oh Canada” says “O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.” ---
**Author:** ![NorthernStar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c77e96/32.png) [@NorthernStar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NorthernStar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/2 "2017-03-27T18:36:33Z")
Absolutely. The three Baltic states have non-militaristic anthems. [Dievs, svētī Latviju! - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dievs,_sv%C4%93t%C4%AB_Latviju)! [Tautiška giesmė - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauti%C5%A1ka_giesm%C4%97) [Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_isamaa,_mu_%C3%B5nn_ja_r%C3%B5%C3%B5m) Ditto Finland - [Maamme - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maamme) - and Sweden [Du gamla, du fria - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_gamla,_du_fria). Likewise, the present day Germany, of all places: > **[Deutschlandlied](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied)** > > The "Deutschlandlied" (German pronunciation: \[ˈdɔʏtʃlantˌliːt\] (listen); "Song of Germany"), officially titled "Das Lied der Deutschen" (German: \[das ˌliːt dɛːʁ ˈdɔʏtʃn̩\]; "The Song of the Germans"), has been the national anthem of Germany either wholly or in part since 1922, except for a seven-year gap following World War II in West Germany. In East Germany, the national anthem was "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" ("Risen from Ruins") between 1949 and 1990. > Since World War II and the fall of Nazi G... And these are only the examples from my geographical “neighborhood”. It would actually be interesting to compile such statistics from all around the globe. For all I know, overtly militaristic anthems might actually be the statistical minority. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/3 "2017-03-27T18:37:54Z")
[Botswana’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatshe_leno_la_rona) national anthem is anything but militaristic. A lot of newer nations (Botswana gained independence in 1966) have less militaristic ones than nations founded further back, when military might was generally seen as something to be more proud of. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/4 "2017-03-27T18:40:03Z")
“Hatikvah”, the Israeli national anthem, isn’t militaristic. [(Lyrics with English translation)](http://www.stateofisrael.com/anthem/) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/5 "2017-03-27T18:44:28Z")
Yes, the South African national anthem. Version with lyrics - in Xhosa / Zulu / Sesotho / Afrikaans / English, with English translation: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mDPsv5p7i7E/maxresdefault.jpg "South African National Anthem - "Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika" (XH/ZU/ST/AF/EN)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDPsv5p7i7E) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/6 "2017-03-27T19:02:26Z")
Not really a debate per se. Moved from Great Debates to GQ. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/7 "2017-03-27T19:37:43Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Is it? > > I’m thinking “The Star Spangled Banner” or “Le Marseillaise” or “God Save the Queen”. > > Even “Oh Canada” says “O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.” Of these examples, none is explicitly descriptive of offensive military action; at worst, God Save The Queen is sort of ambiguous, just hoping the state’s enemies encounter difficulties in their endeavors. The rest encourage, provide pledges of, or tell tales about defensive military action, any of which seem noble enough. Are there any national anthems out there that explicitly glorify military _conquest?_ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/8 "2017-03-27T19:43:39Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Are there any national anthems out there that explicitly glorify military _conquest?_ Deutschland Uber Alles has lyrics that go: \*Germany, Germany above all, Above all else in the world, When it steadfastly holds together, Offensively and defensively, With brotherhood (\*pause for irony). I don’t think that passage gets sung much any more. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/9 "2017-03-27T19:51:00Z")
I always thought Oh Canada should have said, “We stand in goal for thee”. Then it’s not militaristic. The original words were more religious than military, but have been changed since. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/10 "2017-03-27T20:58:34Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I always thought Oh Canada should have said, “We stand in goal for thee”. Then it’s not militaristic. I disagree, hockey is very violent. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/11 "2017-03-27T21:04:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Deutschland Uber Alles has lyrics that go: > > \*Germany, Germany above all, > Above all else in the world, > When it steadfastly holds together, > Offensively and defensively, > With brotherho[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss\_Psalm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Psalm)od (\*pause for irony). > > I don’t think that passage gets sung much any more. Originally, it was written for the democrats of the 1848 revolution against the autocratic mini-monarchies of the day. Nowadays, you’re right, it was so perverted by the militaristic use of it that the official words are the second verse about justice and freedom. And these aren’t particularly militaristic either: [Switzerland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Psalm#Lyrics) [Austria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_der_Berge,_Land_am_Strome#Lyrics) [Luxembourg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ons_Heemecht) [Czech Republic](http://www.linkonlearning.com/public/anthems/countries/czech_republic.htm) and the Spanish national anthem has no official lyrics at all. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/12 "2017-03-27T21:05:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Deutschland Uber Alles has lyrics that go: > > \*Germany, Germany above all, > Above all else in the world, > When it steadfastly holds together, > Offensively and defensively, > With brotherhood (\*pause for irony). > > I don’t think that passage gets sung much any more. Bear in mind that the music and lyrics were written long before Hitler’s dad was a gleam in his Grandpa’s eye! It’s unfair to associate a pretty Haydn melody and a harmless patriotic poem with Auschwitz! ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/13 "2017-03-27T21:51:33Z")
The Welsh national anthem mentions that brave patriots have bled for the country, but it’s just part of a list of things people do for the country, and it put more emphasis on the poetry, song, and language of the country. Next to Hatikvah, it’s the most touching anthem I’ve ever heard, and I’m not Welsh at all. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/14 "2017-03-27T21:59:02Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Bear in mind that the music and lyrics were written long before Hitler’s dad was a gleam in his Grandpa’s eye! It’s unfair to associate a pretty Haydn melody and a harmless patriotic poem with Auschwitz! The Horst Wessel Lied, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/15 "2017-03-27T22:04:06Z")
Not only is it possible to have a non-militaristic patriotic song, but it’s even possible to have [a patriotic song that isn’t even nationalistic](http://prometheusli.com/musings/a_song_of_peace.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/16 "2017-03-27T22:46:41Z")
Moved to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/17 "2017-03-27T22:51:34Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Bear in mind that the music and lyrics were written long before Hitler’s dad was a gleam in his Grandpa’s eye! It’s unfair to associate a pretty Haydn melody and a harmless patriotic poem with Auschwitz! I’m not sure what spirit of brotherhood animated the First Schleswig War, the Second Schleswig War, the Austro-Prussian War of 1866, the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, World War I…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/18 "2017-03-27T23:43:10Z")
Even Japan’s national anthem, one of the oldest, isn’t miltaristic. I think the English translation wishes for a peaceful reigh for the Emperor, that it last for a thousand generations, as a boulder becomes covered with moss. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/19 "2017-03-28T00:10:01Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I always thought Oh Canada should have said, “We stand in goal for thee”. Then it’s not militaristic. The original words were more religious than military, but have been changed since. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I disagree, hockey is very violent. Yes, but the goalie is purely a defensive player. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157/20 "2017-03-28T00:18:26Z")
Australian national anthem: \* Australians all let us rejoice, For we are young and free; We’ve golden soil and wealth for toil; Our home is girt by sea; Our land abounds in nature’s gifts Of beauty rich and rare; In history’s page, let every stage Advance Australia Fair. In joyful strains then let us sing, Advance Australia Fair. ``` Beneath our radiant Southern Cross We'll toil with hearts and hands; To make this Commonwealth of ours Renowned of all the lands; For those who've come across the seas We've boundless plains to share; With courage let us all combine To Advance Australia Fair. In joyful strains then let us sing, Advance Australia Fair. ``` - Tedious and turgid? - yep. Somewhat hypocritical? - sure thing. Militaristic? - no. Even the original[Victorian Era](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Australia_Fair#Development_of_lyrics) version of the song, while pretty cringeworthy in many aspects, only goes so far as to point out with approval how tough Great Britain is, not us [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-have-a-national-anthem-that-isnt-militaristic/783157.md?page=2)