# Is it possible to lie to oneselves so much that you can get sent to Hell for it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 28, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557 "2019-01-28T16:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/21 "2019-01-29T04:56:15Z")
The answer is no, you would not go to Hell for lying to yourself. One goes to Hell for not believing that one is saved by faith in God. If being a sinner kept one from going to Heaven, it would be empty. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/22 "2019-01-29T05:24:51Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The answer is no, because there’s no hell to get sent to, because there’s no afterlife at all. > > But that’s fighting the hypothetical, so instead I voted yes. The notion of hell presupposes a really draconian god, so it seems probable that thought crimes aren’t off the table. This, except that I voted “No.” Because I didn’t find any compelling reason to NOT fight the hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/23 "2019-01-29T05:28:03Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > The answer is no, you would not go to Hell for lying to yourself. _One goes to Hell for not believing that one is saved by faith in God._ If being a sinner kept one from going to Heaven, it would be empty. Okay, now _there’s_ a compelling reason! What if you don’t believe that, but you lie to yourself that you _do_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/24 "2019-01-29T08:23:27Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The answer is no, because there’s no hell to get sent to, because there’s no afterlife at all. This. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/25 "2019-01-29T08:31:20Z")
Lying to yourself plus being honest with others no worky. For people who lie to themselves constantly, it’s the first necessary step in a lot of the lies they tell to others by word, action and/or omission. Also, being a virgin doesn’t equal being chaste. You can be chaste and fuck like a bunny, and you can be a virgin and not chaste at all. Anyway, I’m in the theological “the gate to Heaven is acceptance of Grace” camp, which has shitall to do with having been naughty nor nice; if we posit that the gate’s locks depend on whether you’ve sinned or not, then the specific theology being defined needs to also define what constitutes ill-behavior and whether it includes lying to oneself or not. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/26 "2019-01-29T15:27:03Z")
So you have a person who does nothing wrong ever, but who thinks of raping and killing people every day of their life. And they don’t accept Jesus. According to Christian theology, going to hell. But a serial rapist/murderer who is never caught, but who accepts Jesus two minutes before the shootout with police goes to heaven? According to Christian theology, going to heaven? What is wrong with this picture? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/27 "2019-01-29T15:29:18Z")
There is no hell. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/28 "2019-01-29T16:21:58Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > So you have a person who does nothing wrong ever, but who thinks of raping and killing people every day of their life. And they don’t accept Jesus. > > According to Christian theology, going to hell. > > But a serial rapist/murderer who is never caught, but who accepts Jesus two minutes before the shootout with police goes to heaven? > > According to Christian theology, going to heaven? > > What is wrong with this picture? What do _you_ think is wrong with it? It sounds unjust _if_ you’re thinking of Hell in penal terms, as a punishment for crimes committed. But there are problems with that view. Is it just to assign eternal punishment to temporal crimes? Is it just to judge people strictly by what they’ve done, when the same person might not have done those things without the opportunities or the provocations they had had? If you’re going to assign people to Heaven or Hell, it makes more sense to me to do so based on who or what they fundamentally are, rather than on what they’ve done. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/29 "2019-01-29T17:51:59Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > So you have a person who does nothing wrong ever, but who thinks of raping and killing people every day of their life. And they don’t accept Jesus. > > According to Christian theology, going to hell. > > But a serial rapist/murderer who is never caught, but who accepts Jesus two minutes before the shootout with police goes to heaven? > > According to Christian theology, going to heaven? > > What is wrong with this picture? Someday Ill provide my full “God works in mysterious ways philospohical proof” but in a nutshell…God is either massively more unelightened or enlightened than you so its impossible to apply your standards of morality to him. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/30 "2019-01-29T17:59:11Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Someday Ill provide my full “God works in mysterious ways philospohical proof” but in a nutshell…God is either massively more unelightened or enlightened than you so its impossible to apply your standards of morality to him. Don’t be silly; of course it’s possible to apply my standards of morality to him. I apply my standards of morality to cats; I can apply them to gods. Whether or not God will _care_ if I disapprove of his actions as he crushes me like a bug is another matter, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/31 "2019-01-29T18:21:47Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Don’t be silly; of course it’s possible to apply my standards of morality to him. I apply my standards of morality to cats; I can apply them to gods. > > Whether or not God will _care_ if I disapprove of his actions as he crushes me like a bug is another matter, of course. You apply your standards of morality to cats??? Either you’re a monster (Cause your standards are similar) or your house is some kind of Nurem…purrrrg. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/32 "2019-01-29T18:30:27Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > You apply your standards of morality to cats??? Either you’re a monster (Cause your standards are similar) or your house is some kind of Nurem…purrrrg. The general consequence is that my house is cat-free, actually. (And god-free, for similar reasons.) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/33 "2019-01-29T23:28:55Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > DIfferent theologies would provide different answers. I’m a Universalist, so no one ends up in Hell. > > I guess from a traditional perspective, Christ says in Matthew > I fail to see how lying to oneself violates either of the commandments which effectively sum up the ‘law’ so I fail to see how it’s sin and certainly not a mortal one. I was also raised Universalist and therefore do not believe hell is a punishment for humans (hell is a cage for Satan alone), but I answered no too for similar reasons. The only lying that I know of that is a sin in any flavor of Christianity is if it hurts another person, and there’s no other people involved when you lie to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/34 "2021-06-09T01:11:49Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > The only lying that I know of that is a sin in any flavor of Christianity is if it hurts another person, and there’s no other people involved when you lie to yourself. Just gonna bump this one @elfkin477 to say that, given the COVID experience, if the lie you’re\* telling yourself is such a denial of reality that you are actively harming, possibly killing, other people, then you _ought_ to be damned for it. \*The royal “you”, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/36 "2021-06-09T16:21:54Z")
I started a new thread rather than hijack this one. [Without answers, why religion?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/without-answers-why-religion/943909) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/37 "2021-06-13T11:27:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But: They keep lying to _themselves_ . _How_ they lie to themselves… well, I’ll leave that up to you as I don’t want to taint my scenario with preconceptions\*\*. But this person does lie to themselves, constantly. > > Can they be sent to hell for telling _themselves_ lies? Yes… but let’s clear something up. Hell (and/or the lake of fire) is not eternal punishment, the scriptures are clear Christ will reconcile all things to Himself, things above and things below. This is an absolute and logically must be. Everything was created for Him and it is His inheritance. Christ will not lose any of it. Hell is a refinement, and belief and baptism does not guarantee that someone won’t spend time in Hell, just saved and will receive eternal life. Now I do believe God will try to reach that person before Hell would become a needed way to do that, but some people are so stubborn that they will need that level to learn. With that out of the way I will state my experience. I was in that position of that good christian. I believed abortion was a sin (the sin of murder), and was sure that was God’s view. I even had a woman repent of murder who had an abortion. This was a time of my life that God was cleaning up my life and straightening up a few things. I met 5 women, each one a short time after meeting them confided in me that they had a abortion (the first one I had repent, I never saw her after that). For the others I heard their stories, what lead to them aborting. The words of Jesus came to me, basically the sin of murder is hatred in one’s heart. After hearing their stories a question arouse each time, 'Was there any hatred in this woman’s heart?" I answered each time Lord no there was not. Each time a follow up question arose along the lines of ‘where was the hatred then?’ and I would answer 'from the people who oppressed and shunned this woman for her choice, from society that had her hide her abortion from them at a time when she needed your Love to help her with that hard decision and the after effects and making her bear that hatred. I found out that I was the exact same person that the OP was describing and was very thankful to God that He showed me the error of my ways and I know what a rat bastard I have been, and I do feel very bad about the one I had repent of murder, the one that I have lost contact with, which is most likely for the best. So God does try to reach us, but if I still didn’t get it, Hell refinement would still be an option. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/38 "2021-06-14T16:52:52Z")
It is my religious belief that it is possible for a person to go to Hell. I also believe that it would be presumptuous for me or any other human to specify in any more detail than that just what would result in a person going to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/39 "2021-06-16T09:59:03Z")
Eh, I’ve been thinking about this issue for a while now… what, 2 years? And I wrote a 1,500 word substack which comes down to the conclusion ‘well, it’s on the same list as a bunch of other shit we think damns one in the Christian God’s eyes, so… 👍’. [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51251642535_f842647f88_b.jpg "SmartSelect\_20210615-095551\_Chrome") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/51251642535/) > **[The Sin of Denialism](https://thewaythingsought2b.substack.com/p/can-denial-be-a-sin)** > > ... or why Evangelicals should be shitting bricks about getting into Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/40 "2021-06-16T20:51:51Z")
That’s where you and I differ. There’s a whopping big difference between _thinking_ about murdering and raping people, and actually _doing_ it. Besides, if someone’s thinking about it all the time, they’re probably mentally ill. Does God send mentally ill people to Hell? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557/41 "2021-07-27T19:04:44Z")
I like C.S. Lewis’s take on it in his novel _The Great Divorce_. The souls he depicts as damned\* aren’t so much slaveringly evil as they are utterly and completely spiritually blind. If you drew them as cartoons they would have blank pupilless eyes. I think this fits in with the message that Christianity isn’t about tallying up your scorecard at the end of your life, it’s about whether you achieved enlightenment of the spirit. \*Well, provisionally damned anyway. Still being offered salvation which they in principle could accept. Read the novel for more details. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-lie-to-oneselves-so-much-that-you-can-get-sent-to-hell-for-it/828557.md?page=1)