# Is it possible to live without sleep? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2003, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487 "2003-08-25T10:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/21 "2011-02-01T14:25:12Z")
Yes, but do zombies need sleep? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/22 "2011-02-01T14:43:40Z")
As long as it’s been resurrected I’ll add that there is an extremely rare disease known as [fatal familial insomnia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_familial_insomnia). Apparently if you are one of the few unlucky people to have inherited the mutated gene, one day you will just entirely stop sleeping and 7 to 36 months later you’ll go insane and die. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/23 "2011-02-01T16:08:18Z")
Is there any sort of anesthetization that can provide the benefits of sleep to the degree that a person would not eventually go nuts and die? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/24 "2011-02-01T16:28:39Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > As long as it’s been resurrected I’ll add that there is an extremely rare disease known as [fatal familial insomnia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_familial_insomnia). Apparently if you are one of the few unlucky people to have inherited the mutated gene, one day you will just entirely stop sleeping and 7 to 36 months later you’ll go insane and die. You must have missed post # 9. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/25 "2011-02-01T16:32:26Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Is there any sort of anesthetization that can provide the benefits of sleep to the degree that a person would not eventually go nuts and die? According to the link above on FFI: > [@](#): > > Several cases have proven that sleeping pills and barbiturates do not help, they make FFI worse and actually speed up the disease. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/26 "2011-02-01T16:40:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > You must have missed post # 9. Whoops! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SmithCommaJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@SmithCommaJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmithCommaJohn)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/27 "2011-02-01T17:10:29Z")
I’ve read about FFI before, but reading about it again just reminds me of how horrifying that disease must be. I think I’d prefer to die from virtually anything besides FFI. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/28 "2011-02-01T17:52:33Z")
You can apparently reduce the time spent sleeping quite drastically using [Polyphasic sleep](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/29 "2011-02-01T18:01:47Z")
> [@SmithCommaJohn](#): > > I think I’d prefer to die from virtually anything besides FFI. Well, considering how long it takes to kill you, you should be able to do that with ease. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/30 "2011-02-01T19:11:03Z")
> [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](#): > > You can apparently reduce the time spent sleeping quite drastically using [Polyphasic sleep](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep) I have that as a chronic problem thanks to medications, trust me FUCK NO. I sleep in cycles, and am tired all the time, and it fucks with my ability to do a lot of things. Just as a random example: I can sleep from 930PM to about 130AM. Then I am up for about 4 hours, I have breakfast with mrAru, then take my meds at 5AM, and pretty much crash for a couple hours. I wake up for about 4 or 5 hours, do lunch and meds, and crash for several more hours, then at 5 PM take meds, and start making dinner for when mrAru gets home. I can generally manage to stay awake through dinner and until 930 or so when I lather, rinse and repeat. I have issues with road trips, it is not uncommon for us to have to pull over so I can sleep for an hour, then get back on the road. [I can not ride in a vehicle with mrAru driving … it terrifies me.] I can’t just make a doctors appointment for the sleepy times because I can’t stop from falling asleep. I will fall asleep in the waiting room, the exam room, I have curled up on a hospital floor in a corner before. As long as I can sleep during my sleepy times, I am mostly fine but I would really love to be able to sleep all fucking night, and be up all fucking day. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/31 "2011-02-01T20:30:24Z")
Interesting thread. Thomas Edison claimed to be able to get by on 1-2 hours a night-Napoleon was said to need 3 hours. I wonder how many intense/genius types are able to get by on abnormally few hours of sleep? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/32 "2011-02-01T20:46:59Z")
> [@anewthought](#): > > Absolutely incorrect. While sleeping, the brain actually works out various problems presented to us during the day. The solutions to these problems are presented to us in the form of dreams. Even the dreams you can’t remember help you when you wake up the next morning. Subconsciously you have these solutions to problems stored in your mind and it makes it easier for you to solve them the next day. > While you are awake only the conscious brain is at work. But that is only a small sublet of what makes up a human mind, including the logical thought that makes up genius. A vast quantity of logical thought is created at the subconscious level, which you have no access to at all. These logical thoughts then transfer from your subconscious mind into the conscious one, where you can access them in the real world. It’s only while you are sleeping that this subconscious level is allowed to take control of the entire brain to do it’s work. Denying Einstein the ability to put his subconscious brain to work would most likely have left him a braindead zombie and he wouldn’t have developed anything. This is my understanding also. Dreams is where the mind really works, perhaps because it doesn’t have to deal with the physical reality and the tendency of us wanting to sense it constantly. It is also a time of restoration and repair. So the most productive and most healing time may be that 1/3rd sleep. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/33 "2011-02-01T21:03:01Z")
> [@Rashak\_Mani](#): > > So what does sleep actually do besides “resting” ? If I didnt sleep but also didnt push my body and mind… wouldnt that mean less sleep ? It seems the smaller the mammal…the more it sleeps (generally)…so size might have something to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/34 "2011-02-01T21:41:17Z")
This thread’s making me sleepy. YAWN… ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/35 "2011-02-02T00:34:53Z")
I don’t think it’s possible to live without any form of sleep whatsoever. But you could probably get away with polyphasic sleep, trances, open eyed sleep, or deep meditation. IOW, there are certain elements of sleep that are needed (physical rest, brain maintenance) and others that aren’t (specific number of hours, specific schedule, loss of consciousness/awareness, closed eyes, the general feeling of conventional sleep, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/36 "2011-02-02T01:01:54Z")
> [@anewthought](#): > > Absolutely incorrect. While sleeping, the brain actually works out various problems presented to us during the day. The solutions to these problems are presented to us in the form of dreams. Even the dreams you can’t remember help you when you wake up the next morning. Subconsciously you have these solutions to problems stored in your mind and it makes it easier for you to solve them the next day. > While you are awake only the conscious brain is at work. But that is only a small sublet of what makes up a human mind, including the logical thought that makes up genius. A vast quantity of logical thought is created at the subconscious level, which you have no access to at all. These logical thoughts then transfer from your subconscious mind into the conscious one, where you can access them in the real world. It’s only while you are sleeping that this subconscious level is allowed to take control of the entire brain to do it’s work. Denying Einstein the ability to put his subconscious brain to work would most likely have left him a braindead zombie and he wouldn’t have developed anything. > [@kanicbird](#): > > This is my understanding also. Dreams is where the mind really works, perhaps because it doesn’t have to deal with the physical reality and the tendency of us wanting to sense it constantly. > > It is also a time of restoration and repair. > > So the most productive and most healing time may be that 1/3rd sleep. **anewthought** hasn’t posted here for 6 years, but since someone resurrected this thread I might as well respond. Your brain does re-organize thoughts and memories while you are asleep, but the idea that the “solutions are presented to us in the form of dreams” is rather odd, as is the division of the brain into “conscious” and “subconscious” as if these were well accepted and understood entities. In point of fact, you can be completely deprived of REM sleep (and presumably dream very little, if at all) with no obvious effect on your functioning while awake. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/37 "2011-02-02T01:10:47Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > [In point of fact, you can be completely deprived of REM sleep (and presumably dream very little, if at all) with no obvious effect on your functioning while awake. I find that interesting, because IME, its the nights where I seem to have NOT gotten REM sleep are the nights that make the next day crappy. I would have bet that lack of REM sleep would be the big problem/killer…not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/38 "2011-02-02T10:27:44Z")
> [@SoulSearching](#): > > Can you imagine how productive and advanced humans would be if sleep was not necessary? Numerous historical figures claimed to sleep very little (Edison, Tesla, Picasso come to mind.) Note that this isn’t non-sleep, this is reduced sleep: a few hours catnapping throughout the day, with no 8hrs down time. A large online community is experimenting with sleep deprivation. Search on: [polyphasic+sleep"](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=%22polyphasic+sleep%22) (29,400 hits) Most of these methods involve various distributions of catnapping, with or without some minimal hours of uninterrupted night sleep. I stumbled upon this same effect in college days. It’s certainly real (and not similar to sleep deprivation, not controlled by alarm clocks.) Very probably it’s known in everyday life as “insomnia.” I was calling it “fast-cycling sleep” before hearing about “polyphasic sleep.” Once you’re trapped in a fast-cycling sleep pattern, you simply cannot sleep at night. You become an insomnia sufferer, and this seems to continue permanently unless you can find some way to break out of this mode and return to the 8hrs night-sleep mode. Note that professional sleep researchers do not recognize poly sleep, have not studied it, and the ones online become angry if it’s discussed. So one trick would be to discuss it as “insomnia,” not as a natural human capability. Fast-cycling sleep pattern absolutely requires daytime catnapping. If you ignore the periodic call to sleep, slowly you’ll go into sleep dep psychosis, where dream imagery invades the waking state. The solution is trivial: sleep when you feel sleepy. Multiple times throughout the day you “hit a wall” and encounter overwhelming lethargy. Stagger across the room and crawl under your desk to nap for ten minutes, then suddenly switch back to full wakefulness. Unfortunately this often occurs during a meeting at work, or while up on a ladder repairing ethernet cables, or while out to dinner with friends. You can outwait the lethargy-attack and fight back into normal waking state. But this is a very bad idea and rapidly leads to sleep deprivation symptoms. In other words… poly sleep isn’t compatible with modern employment, unless of course you’re running things and, like Edison, can adjust others’ schedules and catnap whenever you wish. ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/39 "2011-02-02T10:37:37Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I wonder how many intense/genius types are able to get by on abnormally few hours of sleep? In my experience, a mimimized sleep schedule _causes_ an intense/genius type of personality. It takes over your old one. Living “La Vida Hypomania!” The flow of ideas, the pressured speech …the disrupted sleep schedule! If “insomnia” is a symptom of mania, it also seems that mania is a symptom of polyphasic sleep schedule. Only difference from pathology is that you don’t slip in to clinical mania as long as you catnap sufficiently. And your “brilliant ideas” are often actually good, and you can accomplish things that you’d find impossible during the 8hrs-sleeping version of your former life. But I wonder if such things might cause you to die of premature old age. The Roy Batty replicant effect. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487/40 "2011-02-02T12:43:05Z")
Re: post #9 There is a non-hereditary version called [sporadic fatal insomnia](http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/1999/19990526-sfi.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-live-without-sleep/197487.md?page=3)