# Is it possible to make a computer without oil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242 "2017-12-11T22:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/1 "2017-12-11T22:34:33Z")
Just thinking about the role of petroleum in modern life. I think most people think about it in terms of carbon emissions from vehicles and so on, and advocate for other types of energy sources. But doesn’t petroleum play a major role in all sorts of other sectors? Doesn’t anything with plastic in it have a petro-component? For instance, would it be possible to have our modern computer-based economy without petroleum products to make the computers? Doesn’t everyone who has a computer or an iPhone/Android/etc rely on the extraction and shipping of petroleum? Years ago, I read an article that said if you tried to build a VCR (I did say years ago ;). It was when VCRs were the hot electronic) without petro-products, it would likely weigh 30 or 40 pounds, if it worked at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/2 "2017-12-11T22:47:04Z")
The macroscopic parts are probably pretty easy - most of the flexible plastics could probably be replaced by silicones - hard plastics by ceramic or glass (or metal, where conductivity is not a problem). The energy to manufacture the things could come from hydroelectric\*; the packaging can be made from paper and card. The electronic components, maybe not so easy - plastic dielectrics for capacitors, epoxy packaging for integrated circuits and so on - I imagine some of those things probably have alternatives, but the result may be inferior in performance, longevity or some other factor. \*if we’re going to disqualify on the basis that you can’t build hydro plants without petroleum, then all bets are off - because yes, you can’t even have the industrial revolution without cheap fuel. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/3 "2017-12-11T22:49:14Z")
Plastics can be made from natural gas or vegetable oil instead of petroleum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/4 "2017-12-11T23:06:21Z")
Plastics can be made from absolutely anything with carbon in it. It so happens that in the modern world, the easiest to work with source of carbon is petroleum, but if no petroleum is handy, you can use almost anything. And there’s not all that much plastic in a computer, anyway, and they contribute almost nothing to the total cost. If the non-petro-plastics cost twice as much, you probably wouldn’t even notice on the final price tag. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/5 "2017-12-12T00:19:02Z")
While there isn’t much that is plastic in a computer other than the PCB board substrate, fan housings and various clips or fittings, petroleum underlies nearly all of manufacturing from transportation to semiconductor wash systems and solvents to packaging materials. All of this could be replaced by other sources of transportation energy and synthetic polymers but it isn’t a trivial undertaking and would essentially require a complete change in industrial infrastructure. **Chronos** makes the good point that the easiest material to make polymers out of is petroleum residues which provide a rich sources of high quality complex hydrocarbons, and in fact, this is a good argument for transitioning away from using petroleum as a basic transportation fuel. Extracting and burning gasoline and diesel for energy is like refining bauxite oil and using the resulting aluminum for containers to hold colored syrup water, or using precious groundwater aquifers in the Colorado River Basin to irrigate water-thirsty citrus and grain. But fortunately, we are smart enough and have the foresight not to do these thin…oh, never mind. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/6 "2017-12-12T11:56:32Z")
The amount of energy used in the manufacture of a computer is a small fraction of the energy it uses during its lifetime and a significant part of that power is generated by burning oil and gas. Gamers often have computers that are supercharged so much that they use so much electricity that their computer needs a chimney to get rid of the waste heat. There are some interesting statistics here about how much all those internet data centres cost. It says 200 kwh a year or 300pounds of carbon per person. Having been in a few of these datacentres hosting all the websites, they do indeed consume huge amounts of electricity and removing excess heat is a big design issue. > **[Berkeley Lab: It Takes 70 Billion Kilowatt Hours A Year To Run The Internet](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2016/06/28/how-much-electricity-does-it-take-to-run-the-internet/#403202d91fff)** > > Keeping the cloud humming requires more than twice the power generated by all the solar panels in America. There are some datacentres that use electricity from sustainable sources, notably in Iceland. Maybe some companies should market their services claiming that no oil or gas was burnt supplying the power to this website. With respect to making computers, I know of one company that tries to make smartphones from sustainable sources. It does not look so bad. > **[Fairphone | The phone that cares for people and planet](https://www.fairphone.com/en/)** > > At Fairphone we believe a fairer electronics industry is possible. By making change from the inside, we’re giving a voice to people who care. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/7 "2017-12-12T12:10:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Plastics can be made from absolutely anything with carbon in it. It so happens that in the modern world, the easiest to work with source of carbon is petroleum, but if no petroleum is handy, you can use almost anything. It depends where the OP draws the line for “oil”. The stream of material coming out of the ground gets crudely split into natural gas, natural gas liquids, and crude oil. The first two are not strictly “oil” to me, but may be still in the spirit of the OP. But if not, plenty of plastics are not made from oil, particularly in the US where most of our ethylene comes from ethane rather than naphtha. But yes we could sub in plant oils or biogas-to-methanol-to-olefins, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/8 "2017-12-12T12:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > There are some datacentres that use electricity from sustainable sources, notably in Iceland. There are a lot of them, in fact. When you’ve got a business that can be sited anywhere in the developed world, and your main expense is electricity, you site it someplace with cheap electricity. And the cheapest electricity, when it’s available, comes from hydro. So a lot of data centers get sited right next to dams (which also gives you a river nearby, which simplifies the also-significant problem of cooling). ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/9 "2017-12-13T04:16:20Z")
There are two parts to the question that will benefit from clarification First part : Oil is a generic term. About 50 to 70 percent of China’s bulk plastic raw material (polyethylene and polypropylene) comes from Coal and not Oil. The bulk plastics (polypropylene and polyethylene) are made from different feeds in the world depending on local pricing. The heavier fractions of natural gas and the lighter fractions of oil contain ethane which serves as the basic feed for the bulk plastics. However, it can be made from natural gas or methane itself although the costs are higher. Also there are speciality polymers like the resin in the motherboard and other polymers. Some of it is made from formaldehyde (made from natural gas) while some speciality polymers use heavier fractions of oil (Benzene Toluene Xylene). Second Part : the computer itself is made out of many different classes of materials: 1. Plastics / Resins / Speciality polymers - all derived from coal/oil/gas 2. Semiconductors : These also rely on oil/gas for extraction from their native state and are further dependent on gas for purification to the semiconductor grade. For example : Ultra pure hydrogen (99.9999 % +) is needed to make the microchips. 3. Metals : Copper Aluminum and the other metals - all rely on Coal/Oil/Gas in one way or the other to extract them from their ores. 4. Glass/Ceramics - There is glass fibers in the motherboard and ceramic capacitors. These material classes are again very dependent on Oil / gas for the high temperature needed for their production. Once you look through the list above, you may come to the conclusion that surely some parts of the computer can be made using hydroelectric or wind energy or some such boutique energy source but the majority will need Oil/ Coal/ Gas ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/10 "2017-12-13T04:37:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And the cheapest electricity, when it’s available, comes from hydro. Not quite true. Natural Gas based combined cycle power, Geothermal and landfill gas based power are all neck to neck in terms of levelized costs. Cite : [https://www.worldenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/WEC\_J1143\_CostofTECHNOLOGIES\_021013\_WEB\_Final.pdf](https://www.worldenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/WEC_J1143_CostofTECHNOLOGIES_021013_WEB_Final.pdf) Page 11 The place where hydro wins is probably in reliability. > [@Chronos](#): > > (which also gives you a river nearby, which simplifies the also-significant problem of cooling). I am aware of only a few places in the world where this is allowed or practiced i.e. the use of river water as a straight through cooling medium. There is a major headache involved in cleaning the river water (so that it doesn’t form deposits or corrodes) and then the higher temperature discharge to rivers is not permitted due to effects on the ecology (algae, water life, etc). So most power plants and processes that need to reject waste heat rely on cooling towers or air fin/fans to reject the heat to the atmosphere. Cooling towers use the water in a closed loop with a small makeup. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/11 "2017-12-13T05:03:33Z")
There are very stringent qualification requirements for plastic-encpsulated integrated circuits. Things like thermal cycling, wire sweep, electromigration, ESD protection, bonding, moisture absorption, etc. These are not trivial issues and have decades of increased scientific advancement. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/12 "2017-12-13T14:12:12Z")
Absolutely, but don’t leave out the garlic. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-make-a-computer-without-oil/804242/13 "2017-12-13T16:22:47Z")
You have one in your skull but technically you need oils(fats) for biology to survive so my second answer is paper and lead.