# Is it possible to sleep for 5-10 minutes without realizing it (insomnia related)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450 "2016-05-23T09:28:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/21 "2016-05-24T13:46:09Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > You sound like me, sometimes I could swear I go days without sleep but I know I must be getting at least a few minutes here and there. I will seldom go more than 30 min without noticing the clock unless I am forcing myself to just lay still and try to fall asleep/ Yep, exactly the same for me. > [@filmore](#): > > … > > It’s best if you don’t look at the clock since that will wake you up more. > > One thing that may help is to listen to self-hypnosis sleep audio. I’ve used [Speed Sleep](https://speedsleep.com/) and have had good results. For those times when my brain can’t seem to settle down, listening to those will help get my thinking more linear towards going to sleep. I remember that an ex-girlfriend listened to a cassette (that was in the 90s) with 30-minute kid stories before sleeping. I think I heard the end of the stories a dozen times at most during the 3 years that we were together, so I may try solutions like the ones you mention. As far as not looking at the clock, this is almost impossible. There’s always this perverse, nagging thought “Come on, just one glance.” > [@ivylass](#): > > Have you been to a doctor about your sleep issues? No. I’m considering it, but see below. > [@rogerbox](#): > > OP, I had a sleep study done to determine why I can’t sleep or if I have sleep apnea (your story sounds almost exactly like mine), where I was wired with electrodes and monitored the entire night. I tossed and turned the entire time because the bed was institutional and uncomfortable, plus the electrodes and cables kept tangling up. > > In the morning the doctors claimed I had a full restful night of sleep, which was absolute B.S. I wonder too then if there is some way to technically ‘sleep’ while being aware, so that we get a semblance of rest but not the dream state or feeling of actually falling asleep…from my experience the state of science on the subject is terrible. I was thinking about doing a sleep study but your experience isn’t exactly reassuring. > [@Senegoid](#): > > Being sleepless when you want to sleep can be severely anxiety-making. Watching the clock is both a symptom and a cause of this, and tends to keep it bad. It will probably be helpful for the OP to turn the clock around so he can’t see it at night. > > I sleep passably well most nights, with occasional exceptions, but I’ve had longer periods of time with serious difficulty sleeping. (And the gut-wrenching anxiety! Picture yourself intensely wringing out a wash-cloth. Now picture what it feels like to be that wash-cloth.) During times that I’ve had trouble sleeping (especially multiple nights in a row, and at one period in my life, for 16 months non-stop! :eek:), I’ve experienced pretty much everything just like everybody in this thread has been saying. > > I learned that if I could just get _some_ sleep in a night, and _know_ that I got it, I could feel at least a bit better about it. If I wake up at night and remember having had a dream (even though I often don’t remember what the dream was, I can sometimes at least remember that I had a dream), then I know that I slept a little. Then I’ll know that I’ll feel at least a little bit rested and functional the following day. > > Note: BE CAREFUL if you want to try any kind of sleeping pills. I find Benedryl somewhat helpful, but I refuse to use it more than, say, 2 days a week, and only rarely even that. And benzos are the sleeping pills from Hell. Lots of the things you mention are spot-on, especially the wash-cloth metaphor and the anxiety. And I decided long ago never to take sleeping pills. From what I’ve seen in others, it seems that the downsides far outweigh the advantages. And I don’t like the idea of using pills to shut down my brain, plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/22 "2016-05-24T13:54:40Z")
Anecdotally… when I was young, my scouting troop had a weekend event where you tried to stay awake for 36 hours straight and badgered innocent victims beforehand to pledge a certain amount for charity per each hour that you made it. 😉 I made it through over 24 hours, (plus all Friday at school before the event started,) but I remember wandering through the church late Saturday night with other boys teasing me that I’d fallen asleep, and I didn’t believe them because I had no memory of either sleeping or waking up. Eventually the scoutmaster confirmed that he’d found me at around 11pm among the board games, snoozing in a chair next to the Risk table. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/23 "2016-05-24T15:29:30Z")
In looking around, I found something called [Sleep state misperception (SSM)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_state_misperception). > [@](#): > > This sleep disorder frequently applies when patients report not feeling tired despite their subjective perception of not having slept. Generally, they may describe experiencing several years of no sleep, short sleep, or non-restorative sleep. Otherwise, patients appear healthy, both psychiatrically and medically. (That this condition is often asymptomatic could explain why it is relatively unreported.) > > However, upon clinical observation, it is found that patients may severely overestimate the time they took to fall asleep—often reporting having slept half the amount of time indicated by polysomnogram or electroencephalography (EEG), which may record normal sleep. Observing such discrepancy between subjective and objective reports, clinicians may conclude that the perception of poor sleep is primarily illusionary. Based on your experience, I think you would see improvements if you gave your mind something else to think about so it’s not so focused on the time. Those kids stories sound like a good idea. I’ve had luck with this audio which counts backwards from 100 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWAb3Kc\_SMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWAb3Kc_SMs). There’s also this one from 1000 (which I haven’t used) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4TIWu-IWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4TIWu-IWk). It doesn’t work for me if I try to count backwards myself. My mind gets distracted and stops counting or counts too fast. Listening to the audio of someone else counting gets my mind on track towards sleep. You may have to force yourself to not look at the clock. Put the clock and your phone in another room and don’t look at it. Listening to the audios will help distract your mind so it won’t have the urge to look at the time. By looking at the clock, you’re giving your brain evidence that it’s been awake the whole time. It subtracts the current time from the previous time and incorrectly assumes it’s been awake for that entire duration, causing further anxiety. Can you sleep in another room for a while? That may help break the clock habit since your brain will realize it’s in a different place and that place doesn’t have a clock. If you have the urge, look around the dark room and tell yourself, “Oh well, no clock. Back to sleep.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/24 "2016-05-24T16:27:12Z")
This is actually one of those things I learned from House (the TV show). Some patient came in with chronic insomnia, having not slept for 10 days, even after downing a bottle of sleeping pills, and it was set up that she had to get some sleep soon or face brain damage. After a while, though, they proved she was actually going into microsleep, and hence was not in danger. House, of course, then keeps her awake intentionally to figure out what’s wrong–that’s how the show works, after all. Turns out it’s [bubonic plague.] Oh, and I’d recommend melatonin for the OP. Small doses, like 300 micrograms, or 0.3 milligrams, and taken about an hour before you wish to sleep, and avoid any bright lights. It is NOT a sleeping pill. It just signals the brain that it’s time for sleep. If you aren’t willing to try that, then I’d suggest reading about proper sleep hygiene and CBT-I (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia). Which also involves not seeing any bright lights an hour before bed. Also, don’t have a clock where you can see it. Even if you get into the whole “get up if you haven’t slept in 20 minutes” part, try to go by feeling. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/25 "2016-05-24T16:35:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Turns out it’s [bubonic plague.] Heh, googling “Insomnia bubonic plague.”, the first three hits are House-related. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/26 "2016-05-24T17:07:01Z")
I suffered with insomnia most of my life since early childhood. I don’t have much of a problem anymore, a big help is a white noise machine I use at night. I have it set to play the sound of rain, which is comforting to me having grown up in the Pacific Northwest where it rains constantly. It also drowns out the sound of traffic and my wife snoring. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/27 "2016-05-24T17:15:16Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > It’s best if you don’t look at the clock since that will wake you up more. See, I’m the opposite. Looking at the clock just relaxes me, in that, “Oh, I don’t have to get up for another four hours” type of thing, then I can fall back asleep. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/28 "2016-05-24T17:16:13Z")
I had a boyfriend who would claim that he “didn’t sleep a wink last night”. Judging by his snoring, which woke me up during the night, he slept more than he thought he did. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450/29 "2016-05-24T17:34:14Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > In looking around, I found something called [Sleep state misperception (SSM)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_state_misperception). > > Based on your experience, I think you would see improvements if you gave your mind something else to think about so it’s not so focused on the time. Those kids stories sound like a good idea. I’ve had luck with this audio which counts backwards from 100 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWAb3Kc\_SMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWAb3Kc_SMs). There’s also this one from 1000 (which I haven’t used) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4TIWu-IWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4TIWu-IWk). It doesn’t work for me if I try to count backwards myself. My mind gets distracted and stops counting or counts too fast. Listening to the audio of someone else counting gets my mind on track towards sleep. > > You may have to force yourself to not look at the clock. Put the clock and your phone in another room and don’t look at it. Listening to the audios will help distract your mind so it won’t have the urge to look at the time. By looking at the clock, you’re giving your brain evidence that it’s been awake the whole time. It subtracts the current time from the previous time and incorrectly assumes it’s been awake for that entire duration, causing further anxiety. > > Can you sleep in another room for a while? That may help break the clock habit since your brain will realize it’s in a different place and that place doesn’t have a clock. If you have the urge, look around the dark room and tell yourself, “Oh well, no clock. Back to sleep.” That’s very informative, thanks. I’m definitely going to have the clock facing a wall, starting tonight and explore the audio solutions (@ **Atamasama** , the sound of rain would be nice, I love it, too). > [@BigT](#): > > … > > Oh, and I’d recommend melatonin for the OP. Small doses, like 300 micrograms, or 0.3 milligrams, and taken about an hour before you wish to sleep, and avoid any bright lights. > > It is NOT a sleeping pill. It just signals the brain that it’s time for sleep. > > … Yes, I’ve heard of melatonin and I agree it’s not a sleeping pill, so why not ? I’m not sure it’ll works, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-possible-to-sleep-for-5-10-minutes-without-realizing-it-insomnia-related/755450.md?page=1)