# Is it racist? Racial remarks spark reprimand of Nevada official **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151 "2011-03-27T15:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/41 "2011-03-28T00:19:26Z")
The quoted sentence is evidence enough. 'She wrote that her staff and the public “can \*\*plainly see \*\*that the construction employees are all Mexican/Latino \*\*non-English speaking \*\*and I’m getting complaints.” ’ That’s mind smashing obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/42 "2011-03-28T00:25:01Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > By virtue of the Hispanic appearance she concluded they were most likely to be illegal aliens, a type of criminal. She asked whether they were illegal. I don’t see how that supports your claim that she concluded they were illegal. > [@](#): > > How is it better to say a particular ethnic group is is more likely to be only one type of criminal than a criminal in general? Perhaps you are unaware, but in several of the United States of America there are a great many hispanic people who are illegal aliens. So, if someone in Texas or California or Nevada questions whether a hispanic person hired as part of an all-hispanic construction crew is illegal, that doesn’t strike me as possibly evincing that the asker is a racist. But if someone in North Dakota or Florida or Vermont questions whether a black person is a rapist or thief (or just “a criminal”), that does strike me as such. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/43 "2011-03-28T00:29:04Z")
The vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal, so her assumption should be that they are legal. Note that she also concluded (wrongly as it turns out) that just by looking at them, she could tell they couldn’t speak English. That is drawing a conclusion about an ability based on nothing but a perceived ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/44 "2011-03-28T00:37:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > She asked whether they were illegal. I don’t see how that supports your claim that she concluded they were illegal. What was her cause for questioning their legality? She saw non-English speaking Hispanic people and questioned their status based on no other info. She concluded that there was a high risk that they were engaged in criminal behavior (being an illegal alien) based on only this limited info. [quote=] Perhaps you are unaware, but in several of the United States of America there are a great many hispanic people who are illegal aliens. So, if someone in Texas or California or Nevada questions whether a hispanic person hired as part of an all-hispanic construction crew is illegal, that doesn’t strike me as possibly evincing that the asker is a racist. But if someone in North Dakota or Florida or Vermont questions whether a black person is a rapist or thief (or just “a criminal”), that does strike me as such. [/QUOTE] Ignoring the patronizing tone, racial profiling, which is what you are describing, is an example of racial discrimination as one makes conclusions based membership in a group rather than individual specifics. Your distinction between the Hispanics in Texas and blacks in Vermont actually demonstrates the insidiousness of profiling. It’s becomes too easy justify to yourself a conclusion about an individual based on no facts about that individual other than their membership in the group. Statistics fall apart when you get to the individual level, and as a society that values individual rights and liberties, racial profiling is a dangerous eroding of those values. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/45 "2011-03-28T00:47:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have ssome definitive proof that all the workers are Latino other than what one woman says “she can plainly see?” > > No. > > Why? > > Any evidence that non-Latinos are applying for jobs and being denied because they aren’t Latino? No. Why? What I do know is that a lot of people , hispanic, black and white are looking for work and construction jobs especially for government contracts generally pay good and are are nothing to sneeze at. The proof is in the pudding. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/46 "2011-03-28T00:52:47Z")
What pudding? Youi haven’t demonstrated that there is any pudding. That is, you have not demonstrated either that the crew does not include non-Hispanics or that any non-Hispanic applicants have been denied jobs because they are non-Hispanic. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/47 "2011-03-28T00:56:26Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > What was her cause for questioning their legality? She saw non-English speaking Hispanic people and questioned their status based on no other info. She concluded that there was a high risk that they were engaged in criminal behavior (being an illegal alien) based on only this limited info. > > Ignoring the patronizing tone, racial profiling, which is what you are describing, is an example of racial discrimination as one makes conclusions based membership in a group rather than individual specifics. Your distinction between the Hispanics in Texas and blacks in Vermont actually demonstrates the insidiousness of profiling. It’s becomes too easy justify to yourself a conclusion about an individual based on no facts about that individual other than their membership in the group. Statistics fall apart when you get to the individual level, and as a society that values individual rights and liberties, racial profiling is a dangerous eroding of those values. This thread is about whether simply asking if an all-hispanic work crew are illegal aliens is racist or not. I provided my definition and said no. You are now talking about racial profiling, which is beyond the scope of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/48 "2011-03-28T01:04:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You’d have a point if the email said they were more likely to be thieves or rapists or something, but that’s not what it said. This quote, by you in response to **Dio** , was what started our conversation. Your response was beyond the original scope of the thread. You can decide not to discuss this avenue further, but don’t say it’s because all of a sudden it’s gone beyond the scope of the OP. And, FWIW, the email described in the OP was a form of racial profiling, which I firmly believe to be always a racist act. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/49 "2011-03-28T01:15:53Z")
A question for **Bricker** and the others who feel this was racism: Would it have been racism if she had said something to the effect, “Please check the immigration status of all the construction workers building the jail, to make sure they are all here legally.”? So no mention of how anyone looked or “latino” or “Mexican”. (But the workforce is all latino.) ? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/50 "2011-03-28T01:20:57Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > [In this story](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42289646/ns/us_news-life/), a county assessor sent an e-mail to the sheriff asking if all of those latinos working on building a jail were legal. > > My questions are: > > 1.) Is this really racism? > 2.) What should she have done? > Call Immigration? Left it alone? There are what, 10 million illegals in the US? There should be checking procedures as a matter of course. The shaming tactics (“that’s racist”) need to be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/51 "2011-03-28T01:23:37Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So Puerto Ricans aren’t American? Because if they are English isn’t a universal requirement to be American. Do you have something against Puerto Ricans? > > How about American children of undocumented parents? Do they deserve to be suspect? The cite stated Mexican/non-English speaking workers in Nevada. Not Puerto Ricans. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/52 "2011-03-28T01:30:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The cite stated Mexican/non-English speaking workers in Nevada. Not Puerto Ricans. It said Mexican/Latino. Plus its not exactly a “cite”, in the once sentence quote from the email, the woman was lying in at least one respect (that she’d had multiple complaints), and one part of her statement doesn’t make much sense (that she could tell they were non-English speakers by looking at them), so I don’t really think we know anything reliable about the workers at all. Presumably there was at least enough hispanics (or at least people she perceived as hispanic) to set her off, but I don’t think I’d take her word for their exact ethnic make-up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/53 "2011-03-28T01:37:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal… Can you prove that ? Acording to [Statemaster.com](http://www.statemaster.com/index.php) you’ll see that 20% of Hispanics are illegal. That is assuming of course that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanic. So if you’ve got a construction site with 10 Hispanic workers, the math tells you that there is a probability that two of them are illegal. If the entire construction site is of one ethnicity, you know that a form of nepotism is going on and given that ex patriates of any particular ethnicity tend to coalesce around employment situations for support, the probability of illegal aliens becomes even higher. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/54 "2011-03-28T01:38:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The cite stated Mexican/non-English speaking workers in Nevada. Not Puerto Ricans. Irrelevant. Your claim was speaking Spanish was indicative someone probably isn’t American. Clearly either you’re very ignorant about Puerto Rico. Being Puerto Rican doesn’t limit you to living in Puerto Rico any more than being Michiganian limits you to the great lakes region. However let’s ignore Puerto Rico. Are you saying American Hispanics should be harassed for having an accent? I know natural born citizens who have accents. Their parents have accents, listen to Spanish music, and have family and community ties that either speak Spanish or have accents. It’s a sub culture like hip hop, or country western. Why do you think such people should be harassed? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/55 "2011-03-28T01:42:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What pudding? Youi haven’t demonstrated that there is any pudding. That is, you have not demonstrated either that the crew does not include non-Hispanics or that any non-Hispanic applicants have been denied jobs because they are non-Hispanic. Maybe she lied and the crew was all white? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/56 "2011-03-28T01:45:08Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Irrelevant. relevant ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/57 "2011-03-28T02:03:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > A question for **Bricker** and the others who feel this was racism: > > Would it have been racism if she had said something to the effect, “Please check the immigration status of all the construction workers building the jail, to make sure they are all here legally.”? > > So no mention of how anyone looked or “latino” or “Mexican”. (But the workforce is all latino.) > > ? Well given her demonstrated bigoted motivations, yes. If her motivations were such that she have said the same thing independent of what race they were then no. Granted without ESP it’d be a lot harder to tell. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Can you prove that ? > > Acording to [Statemaster.com](http://www.statemaster.com/index.php) you’ll see that 20% of Hispanics are illegal. That is assuming of course that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanic. > > So if you’ve got a construction site with 10 Hispanic workers, the math tells you that there is a probability that two of them are illegal. Hey why not follow that to it’s logical conclusion instead of stopping there? Why not check every Spanish person on sight? America ain’t safe unless kids with tan skin can’t walk home from school without 10 different officers yelling at them to present their papers. Oh yea, people have rights not to be harassed because they’re brown. > [@](#): > > If the entire construction site is of one ethnicity, you know that a form of nepotism is going on and given that ex patriates of any particular ethnicity tend to coalesce around employment situations for support, the probability of illegal aliens becomes even higher. Do you have a cite for this is or is it bigoted stereo typing? As someone who would be easily identified as anglo (I grew up in wonderbreadville Michigan) and has worked around a lot Spanish people I have not once been made to feel unwelcome. However I have heard white anglo people say some regrettable things. Usually it’s the same bigots who say the regrettable things who complain Hispanics keep to themselves. Gee I wonder why? In other news Klan meetings don’t attract many black people. > [@Magiver](#): > > relevant Why? Again, are you saying American Hispanics should be harassed for having an accent? I know natural born citizens who have accents. Their parents have accents, listen to Spanish music, and have family and community ties that either speak Spanish or have accents. It’s a sub culture like hip hop, or country western. Why do you think such people should be harassed? cut and paste rules. Please answer my first, and my second or explain the fault in their premises. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/58 "2011-03-28T02:10:44Z")
This whole situation is stupid. Yeah the lady is probably a racist, but it is not racist for a contracting agency to check the legality of the contractor they hired. The fact that the lady would go to the sheriff or that “Commission Chairman Gary Hollis said (she) should have called U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement” is completely ridiculous. The fact that the sheriff said checking their immigration status is unconstitutional is stupid. Depending on the statutes and regulations of the State, the county should not be able to let out a contract without some type of sealed big process. A company that uses illegal immigrants to lower their bid is basically defrauding all the other bidders and the county. The county should have some type of contracting officer to represent them when dealing with the contractor. Any and all questions about the legality of the contract should go through the contracting officer. It is not illegal, unconstitutional, or racist, for the county to demand that the company they contracted be able to supply document showing they have insurance, pay workers comp or have legal workers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/59 "2011-03-28T02:11:06Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Why? because it addresses a specific demographic. What do Puerto Ricans have to do with the situation beyond having a similar language? > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Again, are you saying American Hispanics should be harassed for having an accent? That was never posited by the person in question. You’re injecting a standpoint that was never made. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/60 "2011-03-28T02:12:38Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > No. > > Why? > > What I do know is that a lot of people , hispanic, black and white are looking for work and construction jobs especially for government contracts generally pay good and are are nothing to sneeze at. > > The proof is in the pudding. Do you really think the county commissioner is interviewing and hiring construction workers himself? That’s asinine. The county goes through the procurement process and hires a construction company, and it’s that company that’s responsible for hiring (and making sure it has documentation on) its employees. If the county wants to start placing restrictions on the employees of their contractors, the time to do that is in the RFP, not when the assessor notices that the laborers are Latino. I also want to point out that the fact that the contractors were speaking Spanish at work does not mean that they can’t speak English. I frequently speak Spanish at work, and I assure you that I’m perfectly fluent in English. Recent immigrants, even legal immigrants who speak perfectly serviceable English, are often more comfortable speaking their native language - especially in a relatively dangerous environment like a construction site. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=4)