# Is it racist? Racial remarks spark reprimand of Nevada official **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151 "2011-03-27T15:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/81 "2011-03-29T15:02:24Z")
If her job description includes proposing new procedures, yes. I don’t really know what an assessor does. However, since her constituents didn’t actually raise the issue… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/82 "2011-03-29T15:43:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Note that she also concluded (wrongly as it turns out) that just by looking at them, she could tell they couldn’t speak English. That is drawing a conclusion about an ability based on nothing but a perceived ethnicity. Maybe she reads lips. If there was a company working next door, and it was within my job to ask if all the workers there had all of the needed paperwork to be there, it would not be racist to ask if I did so for all of the workers **no matter their race**. Getting Immigration involved is a headache no one needs. I don’t see that it was any of her business to ask, unless the company involved had some prior history of hiring illegals and had been busted for it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/83 "2011-03-29T15:49:20Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Maybe she reads lips. . The ability or desire to speak Spanish doesn’t mean they can’t speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/84 "2011-03-29T16:29:42Z")
Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/85 "2011-03-29T16:34:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Can you prove that ? > > Acording to [Statemaster.com](http://www.statemaster.com/index.php) you’ll see that 20% of Hispanics are illegal. That is assuming of course that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanic. Other people have already rightfully taken you to task for your failure to comprehend basic issues of selection bias when applying a population based statistic to a non-randomly selected sample within the population. I’ve got a more basic problem with your response. **Diogenes** stated that the “The vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal,” and your reply is, apparently, “Nuh-uh, a minority (20%) are illegal.” That is, while it seemed that you believed you were contradicting him, you in fact provided evidence that supported his point. Did you really not see that? As to the OP, yes, of course this woman is racist, or bigoted about race (take your pick). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/86 "2011-03-29T16:47:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ve got a more basic problem with your response. **Diogenes** stated that the “The vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal,” and your reply is, apparently, “Nuh-uh, a minority (20%) are illegal.” > > That is, while it seemed that you believed you were contradicting him, you in fact provided evidence that supported his point. Actually, you failed to understand his point. Read the exchange again. [Which is besides for the fact that while the majority of people of Hispanic origin in the US are legal, the vast majority of the ones who speak in Spanish while working on construction projects are illegal. I’d guess about 95% based on the ones I know, but clearly a vast majority, in any event.] ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/87 "2011-03-29T16:48:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoosh. eh. I’ve done worse. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/88 "2011-03-29T16:49:45Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > The shaming tactics (“that’s racist”) need to be ignored. Not sure I follow what you’re saying – are you saying we shouldn’t dispute racist arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/89 "2011-03-29T16:55:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually, you failed to understand his point. Read the exchange again. > > [Which is besides for the fact that while the majority of people of Hispanic origin in the US are legal, the vast majority of the ones who speak in Spanish while working on construction projects are illegal. I’d guess about 95% based on the ones I know, but clearly a vast majority, in any event.] Okie dokie. Have now re-read it. I did not miss a thing. 1. **Diogenes** stated that the vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal residents. A majority is some proportion greater than 50%. 2. **The Flying Dutchman** came back to offer evidence that in fact 80% of Hispanics are legal residents. (To help you out a bit, 80% is much greater than 50%. It’s certainly in the realm of a vast majority, in fact.) 3. **TFD** went on to try to assert that in any group of 10 Hispanic people, one could reasonably assume that 2 would be illegal. Again, 8 out of 10 is a majority, and is arguably a vast majority. But besides that, it is stupid to apply a population rate to an assumption about a non-random sample like this. For instance, 1 in 100 people in the population will have schizophrenia. It is stupid to say that out of 100 physicians, therefore, 1 can be assumed to have schizophrenia. Do you understand why that is a stupid assumption to make? [Again, my point was regarding item #2 above. Others have already duly observed the problems with item #3. But to your concern, there is nothing that I have failed to grasp regarding his point, unless you care to be more specific.] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/90 "2011-03-29T17:00:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually, you failed to understand his point. Read the exchange again. > > [Which is besides for the fact that while the majority of people of Hispanic origin in the US are legal, the vast majority of the ones who speak in Spanish while working on construction projects are illegal. I’d guess about 95% based on the ones I know, but clearly a vast majority, in any event.] Thanks for that invaluable statistical analysis. You (and your unimpeachable empirical data) have shown us the light. No, wait. That’s not it. You’ve… what’s the phrase? Ah, yes- you’ve completely failed to add anything useful to the debate. There are only [2 million](http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/hispanics2009/Table%2029.pdf) foreign-born Hispanics employed in the construction industry, out of 15 million construction industry workers. Even if every single one of those 2 million is an illegal immigrant, that’s 13%. _Clearly_ a vast majority. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/91 "2011-03-29T17:12:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > 1. **The Flying Dutchman** came back to offer evidence that in fact 80% of Hispanics are legal residents. (To help you out a bit, 80% is much greater than 50%. It’s certainly in the realm of a vast majority, in fact.) TFD doesn’t have the burden of proving that most Hispanics are illegal. Only that enough of them are that it’s likely that some of these construction workers are. Which is supported by the 80% number, as he demonstrated. Once it’s highly likely that some are illegal, then the person might be justified in suggesting a closer look. > [@](#): > > But besides that, it is stupid to apply a population rate to an assumption about a non-random sample like this. For instance, 1 in 100 people in the population will have schizophrenia. It is stupid to say that out of 100 physicians, therefore, 1 can be assumed to have schizophrenia. > > Do you understand why that is a stupid assumption to make? Firstly this is a new point that you did not make earlier. Possibly you realized you were on shaky ground after rereading and decided to try something else. But more to the point, if you want to know what’s stupid, it’s your pretending that the non-random aspect here makes it less likely that these workers were illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/92 "2011-03-29T17:13:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If her job description includes proposing new procedures, yes. I don’t really know what an assessor does. > > However, since her constituents didn’t actually raise the issue… I was kind of curious as well since I can’t see what a county assessor has to do with contract supervision and compliance for the county. Her [duties](http://www.nyecounty.net/index.aspx?NID=267) are listed as: - Provide assessments for taxation - Update property ownership - Oversee the appraisal map system - Bill and collect taxes on the unsecured roll - Provide information to taxpayers and public None of her actions have anything to do with the duties of the office that she was elected to. Are Nevada Sheriff’s empowered to enforce immigration laws? I understand that some counties in some states have entered agreements with ICE that authorizes them to pick people up for immigration violations or hold them until ICE picks them up, but is Nye County one of them? From what I’ve observed, it isn’t the larger construction companies that are using illegal immigration, it may be a much smaller subcontractor or more likely a small contractor that does residential work and not one that bids on government jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/93 "2011-03-29T17:16:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are only [2 million](http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/hispanics2009/Table%2029.pdf) foreign-born Hispanics employed in the construction industry, out of 15 million construction industry workers. Even if every single one of those 2 million is an illegal immigrant, that’s 13%. > > _Clearly_ a vast majority. Do you pay ther slightest bit of attention to what you are saying before you type it? What I said, again, was: > [@](#): > > Which is besides for the fact that while the majority of people of Hispanic origin in the US are legal, the vast majority of the ones who speak in Spanish while working on construction projects are illegal. Do you have some point to make? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/94 "2011-03-29T17:18:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > TFD doesn’t have the burden of proving that most Hispanics are illegal. Only that enough of them are that it’s likely that some of these construction workers are. Which is supported by the 80% number, as he demonstrated. Of course he does. He was attempting to counter **Dio** ’s point, which is that the vast majority are legal residents. Instead, he proved it. > [@](#): > > Firstly this is a new point that you did not make earlier. Possibly you realized you were on shaky ground after rereading and decided to try something else. But more to the point, if you want to know what’s stupid, it’s your pretending that the non-random aspect here makes it less likely that these workers were illegal. That’s not a new point, and he did raise it before. In fact, he raised it in _the same post you responded to_: [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Other people have already rightfully taken you to task for your failure to comprehend basic issues of selection bias when applying a population based statistic to a non-randomly selected sample within the population. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/95 "2011-03-29T17:21:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Do you pay ther slightest bit of attention to what you are saying before you type it? > > What I said, again, was: Assuming you’re relying on this: > [@](#): > > …the ones **who speak in Spanish** while working on construction projects… Then, no. I cannot refute your experience regarding people of Hispanic origin who speak Spanish while working on construction projects. Your post remains absolutely moronic, but cannot be disproved. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/96 "2011-03-29T17:23:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > TFD doesn’t have the burden of proving that most Hispanics are illegal. Only that enough of them are that it’s likely that some of these construction workers are. Which is supported by the 80% number, as he demonstrated. > > Once it’s highly likely that some are illegal, then the person might be justified in suggesting a closer look. > > Firstly this is a new point that you did not make earlier. Possibly you realized you were on shaky ground after rereading and decided to try something else. But more to the point, if you want to know what’s stupid, it’s your pretending that the non-random aspect here makes it less likely that these workers were illegal. Actually, I was quite explicit in stating that others had already successfully pointed out why what I numbered item #3 was an erroneous conclusion. In fact, you have continued to engage in this foolish line of reasoning in your very post here, so I would suggest that you go back and re-read and try to understand why it is a foolish mistake. Assuming that any of the construction workers in question, let alone 20% of them (based on population statistics) are illegal is more a function of those involved in the hiring process, no? I mean, even assuming a population rate of 20%, the only way they show up in any sample of workers is if they are allowed to by those employing the workers, right? They aren’t imbued with magical powers or Jedi mind tricks by dint of the fact that they are illegal residents, are they? As to the remainder, **TFD** had no mandate to post any content or take on any burden whatsoever. I’m merely pointing out that when he did so by engaging in this particular exchange with **Diogenes** , he was in fact providing evidence that supported **Diogenes’** statement rather than refuting it. That ground is as rock solid and firm now as it was before you took up your defense of it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/97 "2011-03-29T17:25:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Of course he does. He was attempting to counter **Dio** ’s point, which is that the vast majority are legal residents. Instead, he proved it. To the contrary. Dio’s point was that > [@](#): > > The vast majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal, so her assumption should be that they are legal. TFD countered that by noting that even if the majority of individual Hispanics are legal, it does not follow that “they” are legal, since the likelihood is that the group contained illegals. Which is not to say that no one can argue with that. Only that responding to this by noting the obvious fact that 80% is greater than 20% misses the point. > [@](#): > > That’s not a new point, and he did raise it before. In fact, he raised it in _the same post you responded to_: He presented them as being two separate points, and his “more basic problem” as being a freestanding issue. I didn’t address the other point that he referenced (as “other people ahve already …”) so he shouldn’t bring this up in response to my post. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/98 "2011-03-29T17:27:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Your post remains absolutely moronic, but cannot be disproved. Well done. A parting shot, to cover his shame … ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/99 "2011-03-29T17:31:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > A parting shot, to cover his shame … I see no reason why he would be the one to experience any shame as a result of this exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/100 "2011-03-29T17:31:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To the contrary. Dio’s point was thatTFD countered that by noting that even if the majority of individual Hispanics are legal, it does not follow that “they” are legal, since the likelihood is that the group contained illegals. > > Which is not to say that no one can argue with that. Only that responding to this by noting the obvious fact that 80% is greater than 20% misses the point. Since the point was sufficiently addressed by the people who corrected **TFD’s** statistical analysis error, there was no need for **Hentor** to do so. Which he acknowledged. > [@](#): > > He presented them as being two separate points, and his “more basic problem” as being a freestanding issue. I didn’t address the other point that he referenced (as “other people ahve already …”) so he shouldn’t bring this up in response to my post. I’m sure he’ll follow Fotheringay-Phipps’ Rules of Debating Procedure more assiduously next time. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > A parting shot, to cover his shame … If you genuinely feel that anyone gives a shit about your experiences with Hispanic construction workers, please feel free to explain why. I’m all ears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=6)