# Is it racist? Racial remarks spark reprimand of Nevada official **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151 "2011-03-27T15:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/121 "2011-03-30T03:19:20Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > If you want to make a big deal about what a “vast majority” means have at it. If one in five members of an ethnic group are illegal, I’d say that is huge and way out of proportion when compared to blacks, whites or Asians or any other ethnic group in America. I’d say the vast majority of blacks are legal. Why are you making any comparisons to any other racial groups? What does their relative risk have to do with assessing their absolute risk? > [@](#): > > Perhaps I need some educating here. Please explain this “selection bias”. I didn’t select this group. Whoever hired them did. For all I know this crew is entirely illegal or entirely legit. Still, I would suggest that investigating a crew of 10 Hispanics would yield a high probability finding an illegal immigrant. Selection bias means that there is some systematic process behind why those particular people came to be there. A group of workers at a construction site is not the same as a randomly selected group because there are a number of processes in place to select out and select in certain people into that group. In this case, given the nature of the person doing the hiring, it’s actually less likely that anyone in that group would be illegal. As for your high probability, I would point out that if you were a professional baseball player, and you got a hit at the same rate that you would find undocumented workers in random selections of the population, you wouldn’t be in baseball very long - you’d be below the Mendoza line. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/122 "2011-03-30T03:23:12Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > If you want to make a big deal about what a “vast majority” means have at it. If one in five members of an ethnic group are illegal, I’d say that is huge and way out of proportion when compared to blacks, whites or Asians or any other ethnic group in America. I’d say the vast majority of blacks are legal. > > Perhaps I need some educating here. Please explain this “selection bias”. I didn’t select this group. Whoever hired them did. For all I know this crew is entirely illegal or entirely legit. Still, I would suggest that investigating a crew of 10 Hispanics would yield a high probability finding an illegal immigrant. And I restate. If someone believes Asians have a high portability of being bad drivers, as you believe Latinos are “illegal”, and pass up a qualified Asian semi driver because of that perception why aren’t they an evil jackass, utter hateful vile garbage? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/123 "2011-03-30T03:35:51Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > And I restate. If someone believes Asians have a high portability of being bad drivers, as you believe Latinos are “illegal”, and pass up a qualified Asian semi driver because of that perception why aren’t they an evil jackass, utter hateful vile garbage? Restate? I can’t believe I missed the first time you stated this incomprehensible drivel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/124 "2011-03-30T03:46:58Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Why are you making any comparisons to any other racial groups? What does their relative risk have to do with assessing their absolute risk? That’s not the point I’m making. The term “vast majority” is a relative term. There is no definitive definition for “vast majority” You would agree with me that the vast majority of blacks in Nevada are legal. I wouldn’t put Hispanics in the same category. I’d be more comfortable to state that a significant majority of Hispanics in Nevada are legal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/125 "2011-03-30T03:53:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > As for your high probability, I would point out that if you were a professional baseball player, and you got a hit at the same rate that you would find undocumented workers in random selections of the population, you wouldn’t be in baseball very long - you’d be below the Mendoza line. I would not be _below_ the Mendoza line. I’d be right on . ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/126 "2011-03-30T13:26:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s not controversial to say any of the above. You’re trying to mislead by speaking about “communities” now. Of course, the issue in this thread, and your previous contentions here were not about broad communities, but about specific people. No, that’s not true. How about you back up your words - and integrity - here by showing where I’ve said anything about specific people? I’ve been talking about groups of people, whether Hispanics as a group, or Spanish-speaking Hispanics who work in construction, or the specific group who worked on a particular construction site, or TFD’s example of ten randomly selected Hispanics. What have you got? > [@](#): > > Now, assuming that a particular person is an illegal alien because they are Hispanic - problem. Any randomly selected Hispanic is more likely to be an illegal alien than a randomly selected member of the population at large. As some have pointed out, most Hispanics are legal. But as you deal with bigger groups, the likelihood that the group includes illegals increases. In this example, assuming that 80% are legal, this means that the likelihood of a randomly selected group of Hispanics has at least 1 illegal alien is about 90%. [In the case of Spanish-speaking Hispanics in construction, the likelihood is obviously much much higher.] ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/127 "2011-03-30T13:54:00Z")
Presumeably being against illegal immigration is racist then ? If you’re against it then it must be that you look on all foreigners regardless of their origin as being inferior to your own ethnic group. Rather then say, being concerned about people being paid sweat shop rates for crushingly long hours, having their human/employee rights being non existant;no health and safetey provisions or enforcement, Here in the U.K. not too long ago some twenty one Chinese I.I.s working at cockle picking were drowned when the tide changed in the bay where they were working. If some busybody had enquired about their status, because they were ethnic chinese,in a large group who didn’t speak English, they’d have been alive today. But of course that would have been racist. "Racist "gets thrown around all too glibly by those who’d like to gag people . ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/128 "2011-03-30T13:59:23Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Rather then say, being concerned about people being paid sweat shop rates for crushingly long hours, having their human/employee rights being non existant;no health and safetey provisions or enforcement, I agree with your general sentiments, but I must say, I don’t believe many opponents of illegal immigration are opposed out of concern for the illegal immigrants living conditions. As for me, I agree that these illegal immigrants have hard lives, but they are obviously better (and/or have better prospects for the future) than their situation in Mexico and elsewhere, or they wouldn’t keep coming here. The net impact of cracking down on illegal immigration is not to improve the lives of the immigrants themselves. [In fact, I would add, that the net impact of cracking down on abusive working or living conditions of ilegal immigrants is also not to improve their lives. Because that makes employers less eager to hire them, or landlords less eager to rent to them and so on.] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/129 "2011-03-30T14:31:11Z")
\*\*1.) Is this really racism? \*\* If it wasn’t racist in intent, why did she lie about getting complaints? Why did she make such a big deal about their ethnicity? **2.) What should she have done? Call Immigration? Left it alone?** Assuming for one hot second that it was somehow her business to check such things and assuming that the construction company was hired by the sheriff’s office (neither of which are necessarily true) she should have phrased it in terms of a mitigation of potential liability to the county should the contractors turn out to be illegal, rather than “I notice those workers all look Mexican” which is fundamentally a race-based question. At the very least she would now have a more defensible position. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/130 "2011-03-30T15:14:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > A group of workers at a construction site is not the same as a randomly selected group because there are a number of processes in place to select out and select in certain people into that group. In this case, given the nature of the person doing the hiring, it’s actually less likely that anyone in that group would be illegal. Could you please provide a cite that a group of Spanish-speaking Hispanics working construction in Nevada are less likely than the same-sized group taken at random from the general populace to contain illegal aliens? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/131 "2011-03-30T16:25:51Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If some busybody had enquired about their status, because they were ethnic chinese,in a large group who didn’t speak English, they’d have been alive today. _This_ busybody demanded that the local police round them up and “enquire about their status”. That’s not quite the same as, say, contacting the agency responsible for selecting contractors for government building projects to confirm that their employees are not illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/132 "2011-03-30T16:39:22Z")
In this country we do not ask people for their “papers” based only on their ethnic background or spoken language, no matter what the statistics for the group may indicate. That is racial/ethnic profiling and it is inherently wrong given the values of personal liberty we hold dear. The price of personal freedom is that we may miss law breakers by protecting the individual’s right to not be looked upon as criminal without cause. That is a price worth paying, because the alternative is unthinkable. No one can fault an individual for thinking thoughts such as the one the assessor had- however, when you choose to act on those thoughts is when the problems arise. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/133 "2011-03-30T17:01:17Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > In this country we do not ask people for their “papers” based only on their ethnic background or spoken language, no matter what the statistics for the group may indicate. That is racial/ethnic profiling and it is inherently wrong given the values of personal liberty we hold dear. The price of personal freedom is that we may miss law breakers by protecting the individual’s right to not be looked upon as criminal without cause. That is a price worth paying, because the alternative is unthinkable. That’s a valid viewpoint but that doesn’t mean that someone who doesn’t want to pay that price is a racist (or at least bigot - I don’t want to quibble over semantics). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/134 "2011-03-30T17:14:54Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > In this country we do not ask people for their “papers” based only on their ethnic background or spoken language, no matter what the statistics for the group may indicate. We do upon hiring. [Cite.](http://humanresources.about.com/od/policysamplesik/a/I9_form.htm) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/135 "2011-03-30T17:24:45Z")
Nice work, champ, but we’re not talking about hiring. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/136 "2011-03-30T17:29:13Z")
Yes, we are - presumably all the Spanish speaking Hispanics working on the site were hired. Therefore, they should (in theory) have produced proof of eligibility before starting work. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/137 "2011-03-30T17:36:34Z")
Shodan, your cite seems to contradict your claim > [@](#): > > The I-9 Form must be completed for every new employee, **regardless of their national origin** or whether or not the employee is a U.S. citizen. (emphasis added) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/138 "2011-03-30T17:45:36Z")
As people applying for jobs in the U.S. have to show their potential employers their papers it would appear that there are no illegal immigrants working illegally in America. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/139 "2011-03-30T17:46:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Shodan, your cite seems to contradict your claim(emphasis added) How so? > [@](#): > > First required by the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986, the I-9 Form verifies the eligibility of an employee to work legally in the United States. Employers are required to verify this employment eligibility for every employee hired. We ask for “their papers” when we hire them. Just as I said. I made no claim that we asked for proof of citizenship based on ethnicity. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151/140 "2011-03-30T17:53:06Z")
But that’s what IvoryTowerDenizen was talking about, and you quoted and responded to his words. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-racial-remarks-spark-reprimand-of-nevada-official/576151.md?page=8)