# Is it racist to use the term 'Master Bedroom' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613 "2022-10-21T22:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/201 "2022-10-24T17:43:53Z")
I like that the master’s bedroom “easily accommodates twin beds”. Which suggests the folks making fun of the Flintstone’s, Petrie’s and Ricardo’s sleeping arrangements may not have quite as strong a case as everyone assumes. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/202 "2022-10-24T19:51:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Why would you care? I mean, I don’t want to offend anyone, but I’m also not going to either tiptoe around the language hoping I don’t run afoul of ignorant/stupid people, or go around using the words deliberately just for the sake of being a pedant and pointing out that there’s nothing wrong with them. Being incorrect about the etymology of a particular phrase is a mistake that I suspect most people that you want respect from have also made. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/203 "2022-10-24T20:10:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > This here is the perfect example of how woke capitalism spreads. It’s fascinating really. Clearly something must be done about woke capitalism. What do you propose? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/204 "2022-10-24T20:13:28Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > What, after all, is a rumpus room? “What’s all the rumpus?” ~Tom Reagan ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/205 "2022-10-24T20:20:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > > [@Dinsdale](#): > > > > You are absolutely correct. However, I’ve pretty clearly become of the mind that - when possible - I’d just as soon avoid offending even stupid and overly sensitive people. ⁢ > > Why would you care? I mean, I don’t want to offend anyone, but I’m also not going to either tiptoe around the language hoping I don’t run afoul of ignorant/stupid people, or go around using the words deliberately just for the sake of being a pedant and pointing out that there’s nothing wrong with them. > > I mean, who cares if ignorant people are offended? It’s their problem, not yours. People seem too easily offended and like they’re walking around with chips on their shoulders about stuff like this. ⁢ Because it generally _isn’t_ just their problem. Their offense will at least add friction between your interactions (however many that will be). And it could get much worse. It’s often easier to head it off. There’s obviously a way to go overboard with it, as there always is. You can’t anticipate everything. But it makes sense as a general rule to be somewhat proactive about this. If someone lets you know that some decent number of people find something offensive, it makes sense to take that into account. Especially with fraught situations like this involving racism, bigotry, or things of similar import. It’s unlikely this is one single stupid person saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/206 "2022-10-24T21:06:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > no it isn’t. You are free to continue taking as much offence as you like, but it is your _choice_ to do so. Excuse me - when you state: > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If you take offence at a word, **then have it explained to you that the context and usage is clearly not intended for any offensive purpose** then you have the option of continuing to take offence or not. Then you are, indeed, telling someone they should not be offended. You are telling them how to feel. Whether or not you INTEND to cause offense is not what determines whether or not offense is caused. It is entirely possible, probably very common, to UNintentionally cause offense. After someone tells you “I am offended” it is your choice whether or not to continue the offensive behavior. It is not your choice whether or not that person continues to be offended because you can not dictate to another person how they feel. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/207 "2022-10-24T21:54:13Z")
The Online Etymology Dictionary has an earlier US cite than the Sears catalog: > **[master | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=master)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... And specifically: > **Master bedroom** , “bedroom designed for the use of the owner of the property,” as opposed to bedrooms for children or guests, is by 1919 in U.S. home-builders publications (e.g. Building Age, April 1919). It seems to be based on the English master’s bedroom (by 1903) “bedroom of a headmaster or other master at an English boarding school or other similar institution.” > The top floor was treated much the same as the two lower ones. Here the closet was made just a bit larger so as to allow for a bathtub, thus pushing the partition forward, making the front room less deep than the rooms below, yet paradoxically larger, because it takes in the whole front of the house. This is what is known in English advertisements as the “Master’s bedroom.” [The House Beautiful, June 1921] On one hand, they do think that the usage evolved from “master’s bedroom.” On the other, the English usage it evolved from apparently referred to a headmaster of a boarding school or similar position. It also seemed to have a very specific meaning of a bedroom that was larger than the others by virtue of taking up the full width of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/208 "2022-10-24T22:28:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Why would you care? … As I’ve gotten older, I guess I’ve just wanted all manner of things to go more smoothly and pleasantly. I used to argue all manner of things. Now, I just want to live and let live. I’d just as soon not offend anyone if I can avoid it - unless someone is a blatant racist, or misogynist or something. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/209 "2022-10-24T23:27:32Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > It seems like the word bedchamber was the word changed, rather then master. Something similar may be occurring now. In real estate advertising, the word most clearly changing is bedroom. In red counties, it is now most commonly a master suite. And in blue counties, it is now most commonly an owner’s suite. I think the ultimate fate of the word master is still uncertain, even though it has taken a hit. If the locale is 50-50 between our two major political parties, the word master is currently losing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/210 "2022-10-24T23:56:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Then you are, indeed, telling someone they should not be offended. You are telling them how to feel. You are just flat out wrong. I can’t explain it to you any clearer than the words I use in the quote you yourself have just used. At no point do I say that anyone _should_ feel a certain way, or that they are _wrong_ to feel a certain way. I say that everyone, once in possession of the facts, has the _option_ to choose how to react. A point that _you yourself_ made. > [@Broomstick](#): > > You can control how you react to something which I assume you are applying to everyone, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/211 "2022-10-25T00:00:21Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > do you think of America as being way off in the West (even as it is a symbol of so-called Western culture This is just a small sample, but I think of the world on a flat map that cuts down the middle of the Pacific, so we are literally on the western side of the world. Similarly, I think of my location within the country as being on the eastern side of my conceptual map. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/212 "2022-10-25T00:09:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The water continues to get warmer while the frog keeps getting told that he is unreasonable to be bothered by it. > > I.e., linguistic prescriptivists are constantly warning that the incessant evolution of language is somehow just about to land us in some kind of looming unspecified linguistic catastrophe. With the implication that language somehow won’t work properly anymore, or will even somehow cause its users to be destroyed, like a slowly boiled frog. I’d love for someone to complete the analogy. We only get: ([a frog in a slowly heated pot] is to [society experiencing linguistic evolution]) as ([a boiled frog] is to … [_x_]) What is _x_? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/213 "2022-10-25T00:19:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What is _x_? [![](https://morbotron.com/meme/S07E04/1001417.jpg?b64lines=RG9vbWVkIQ==) ](https://morbotron.com/meme/S07E04/1001417.jpg?b64lines=RG9vbWVkIQ==) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/214 "2022-10-25T01:57:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > @TriPolar ”master bedroom” is not at the point of “niggling” but _could_ it get there in a decade, if the phrase goes broadly out of fashion? It is not impossible. No it’s not but I don’t see what that has to do with the question in the OP. There can be all sorts of reasons for language to change but that doesn’t make 'Master Bedroom ’ a racist term. ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/215 "2022-10-25T03:05:50Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Are young boys no longer allowed to be called master? Only if their last name is Bates. (Credit: the first page of _Gulliver’s Travels_.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/216 "2022-10-25T03:42:23Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There can be all sorts of reasons for language to change but that doesn’t make 'Master Bedroom ’ a racist term. The short answer to the thread title would become: _No, but it is anyway becoming obsolescent._ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/217 "2022-10-25T03:46:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are just flat out wrong. I can’t explain it to you any clearer than the words I use in the quote you yourself have just used. > At no point do I say that anyone _should_ feel a certain way, or that they are _wrong_ to feel a certain way. I say that everyone, once in possession of the facts, has the _option_ to choose how to react. A point that _you yourself_ made. You specifically say that they have the option of “continuing to take offence.” I would argue that’s not generally true. You don’t choose whether to take offense. You believe something is offensive–that there’s something about it that should not be. Even if the person 100% believes you didn’t intend to offend, it’s possible (and even likely) that the person thinks what you said was in fact offensive, and that you should stop saying it. They aren’t choosing to still be offended. They think what you say inherently carries an offensive element. For example, I find the idea that you just shouldn’t care if you offend anyone to be offensive. But I have chose to react to that by explaining why I think that reaction is wrong. My choice did not involve the offense, just the reaction to said offense. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/218 "2022-10-25T07:25:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You specifically say that they have the option of “continuing to take offence.” I would argue that’s not generally true. You don’t choose whether to take offense. Of course you do. If someone uses a word that sounds _exactly_ the same as one that can be considered offensive your initial reaction may be one of taking offence. If you then have it explained to you how it is being used, the context, the usage and the intent etc. You now have the choice of _continuing_ to be offended and asking for someone else to change their (completely benign) language or shrugging it off and getting on with your life. You are completely in control of your reaction here. > [@BigT](#): > > For example, I find the idea that you just shouldn’t care if you offend anyone to be offensive. And I find the idea that my mere sense of initial offence must _require_ a change in another person’s behaviour to be far too much of a presumption. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/219 "2022-10-25T09:14:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are just flat out wrong. I can’t explain it to you any clearer than the words I use in the quote you yourself have just used. You don’t see the problem with explaining to someone why they are wrong to take offense at something they believe they have reason to be offended by? Again, YOU don’t get to decide what it is or isn’t appropriate for someone else to be offended by. “Explaining” why someone shouldn’t be offended is the same thing as telling them they’re out of line for being offended and shouldn’t feel that way. But since this is clearly a hill you want to die on I see we are not getting through to you. So… you do you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/220 "2022-10-25T11:37:36Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are just flat out wrong. I can’t explain it to you any clearer than the words I use in the quote you yourself have just used. Please note : I originally agreed with your statement. The words used have convinced me clearly that I was incorrect. An individual using words that they know are reasonably likely to cause offense is a choice of an _action_. Actions are relatively easy to choose to perform or to not perform. An individual experiencing offense is an internal _emotional response_, one of hurt. It is extremely difficult to decide whether or not to have an emotional response, even if those responses are not logical. Even within Vulcan culture it took training! We can control our action based on those responses. A person can decide to act as if the offense did not occur. They can rationally conclude that the offense was the result of ignorance and forgive it. They can conclude that the other was aware that what was said would have a high chance of causing offense and did it anyway. In the latter a common reaction would be hurt to anger and anger to action in response, be that verbal, walking away, refusing to do business, etc. Those actions are choices. Telling someone who is offended that there is no cause for offense, that they are choosing to be offended, will not usually go well. Again specific to this thread: I think a person in the general population can currently use “master bedroom” in conversation without fear of offense the vast majority of the time. But it is a word that for multiple reasons is going out of fashion (including realtors fear of having even a few react negatively to it), and as that builds? Meanings received can change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613.md?page=12)