# Is it racist to use the term 'Master Bedroom' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613 "2022-10-21T22:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/321 "2022-10-27T18:53:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yes, some people are idiots. However, it’s NOT idiotic to point out that “Niggling” and “Niggardly” do sound uncomfortably like a horrible racist epithet. That’s not factually wrong, it’s true, unlike someone thinking “several” is etymologically related to “seven,” which it objectively is not. I think it would be better if people who mistake ‘niggle/niggling’ for a racist epithet, to be educated that it is not, rather than for everyone else to have to adjust their vocabulary to accommodate the ignorance of others. > [@RickJay](#): > > Suppose that English had a relatively old and obscure synonym for some random adjective - let’s say we had an old synonym for “grumpy” that was spelled and pronounced “cuntish.” Let us further suppose that etymologically speaking, that word’s similarity to a vile word for a woman was just coincidental (as is in fact the case for niggardly and the racist epithet.) I still wouldn’t use the word. I don’t think that’s idiotic, is it? That’s your choice, of course, but a lot of words sound simliar, and some words that are outright racist epithets in one context are completely ordinary words in another context - not ‘sound a bit similar’ - same word; ‘spade’ for example. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/322 "2022-10-27T18:56:47Z")
LOL. I can’t believe people have dug in so deeply to argue about this. The N-word is basically the worst word that you can say, and there are these two other words that sound almost exactly like it, and for which there are numerous other much more commonly used synonyms. It’s a waste of time trying to convince people that it’s OK to say “niggardly” because it really has nothing to do with racism…it’s not about the meaning, it’s about how it sounds and the instant psychological reaction to hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/323 "2022-10-27T18:59:12Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > It’s a waste of time trying to convince people that it’s OK to say “niggardly” because it really has nothing to do with racism It _is_ a waste of time, but some people enjoy the smug superiority they get when they do so. At this point, I don’t think that people who use the word “niggardly” are racist, I think they are trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/324 "2022-10-27T19:03:13Z")
I think I’d accept that people using niggardly a lot might be trolling. Niggle, on the other hand, is a not-uncommon word in the UK. I wouldn’t encounter or use it every day, but it’s a word that I hear people using, and occasionally use myself. The only context it’s ever been in problem is once or twice by Americans hearing me speaking - and that’s happened with a lot of different words (in other contexts that caused other categories of confusion, including the aforementioned ‘several’) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/325 "2022-10-27T19:05:15Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > LOL. I can’t believe people have dug in so deeply to argue about this. The N-word is basically the worst word that you can say, and there are these two other words that sound almost exactly like it, and for which there are numerous other much more commonly used synonyms. I don’t really think people have ‘dug in’ any more than I’d ‘dig in’ if you tried to persuade me that two plus two is five. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/326 "2022-10-27T19:12:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think it would be better if people who mistake ‘niggle/niggling’ for a racist epithet, to be educated that it is not, rather than for everyone else to have to adjust their vocabulary to accommodate the ignorance of others. If you want to educate others in contexts like this thread, where the likelihood of being overheard/misheard are small, sure. Go for it. But it’s really true that people remember how they felt more than they remember what you said. If you are chatting with a friend at a bar, and a nearby patron thinks you are saying the “n word”, you may have ruined his day. And for what? Why risk casually hurting people? > [@Mangetout](#): > > Niggle, on the other hand, is a not-uncommon word in the UK. I wouldn’t encounter or use it every day, but it’s a word that I hear people using, and occasionally use myself. That’s interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it used. As mentioned above, i used to occasionally use “niggardly”, although I’ve dropped it from my use-vocabulary. But reading the word “niggle”, my first association is the short story by Tolkien, “Leaf by Niggle”. My phone doesn’t know the word, and i just looked it up to check the meaning. It’s not at all common in the US, and I’d assume anyone using it was trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/327 "2022-10-27T19:19:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But it’s really true that people remember how they felt more than they remember what you said. If you are chatting with a friend at a bar, and a nearby patron thinks you are saying the “n word”, you may have ruined his day. And for what? Why risk casually hurting people? I think there probably are cases where it’s reasonable to expect people to modify their behaviour in order to avoid possibly offending others, and I think there are cases where such expectation would be unreasonable. I have to draw a line somewhere in that continuum, between ‘reasonable’ and ‘unreasonable’. This case is that side of that line, for me. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/328 "2022-10-27T19:22:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I can say with total confidence that you are the first person I have ever encountered who used “several” to mean “seven.” That’s odd. Literally odd too, I guess. Even informally I’ve never thought of those being connected; “Several” just means “more than two but definitely not as many as ten.” I think I’d say several can mean two in occasional use cases - for example in software design, there are usually none of something, exactly one of a thing, or more than one of a thing, so in a design context, I might ask ‘one or several?’ - where ‘several’ just means more than one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/329 "2022-10-27T20:52:35Z")
I’m not entirely sure that’s a “modern day actual meaning of the word”, so much as it’s flat-out incorrect usage because someone thinks it must mean that because it sounds/is spelled differently. I think Julian Bond (Chairman of the NAACP from 1998-2010) said it best in reference to the whole David Howard “niggardly” controversy: > You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people’s lack of understanding ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/330 "2022-10-27T21:04:18Z")
And I think that Ronald D. Smith, Professor Emeritus of Public Communication and former Chair of the Communication Department at Buffalo State, accredited member of the Public Relations Society of America, said it best when he responded to that statement, “He’s undoubtedly correct, but as public relations writers, we probably don’t want to risk offending our audience by using what amounts to show-off words.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/331 "2022-10-27T21:18:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people’s lack of understanding Sort of that. I guess I might be more sensitive than others to vocab pruning demands, because I get it a lot (in comments and emails relating to my YouTube videos). In the past year, I have had (in addition to people picking up on the very occasional use of ‘niggle’ and the ‘several/seven’ thing mentioned above): - Don’t call a ketchup packet a ‘sachet’, because I don’t know what that means - Don’t use the words ‘candy’, ‘trash’, ‘garbage’, because you are British - Don’t refer to a gherkin as a pickle, because you are British - Don’t use the word ‘vinegar’ because I thought you said the N word - Don’t say ‘can’ - you should say ‘tin’ - Don’t say ‘random’ unless you mean this specific definition of the word - Don’t say ‘organic’ unless you mean ‘contains carbon’ and very probably more I can’t recall. How much of my vocabulary must I shed to accommodate people who lack understanding? I decided the answer is: none really. These are not reasonable requests. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/332 "2022-10-27T21:28:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Don’t use the word ‘vinegar’ because I thought you said the N word What word is one supposed to use in place of ‘vinegar’? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/333 "2022-10-27T21:54:48Z")
I have never heard a single one of those. Is that just the people that you are around, or is this something that’s actually a thing? Do you really think that it’s reasonable to compare those random critiques that some random person gave you to the topic or subtopic of this thread? > [@Mangetout](#): > > How much of my vocabulary must I shed to accommodate people who lack understanding? I guess it depends on how ignorant you want to be about how your words are perceived. > [@Mangetout](#): > > I decided the answer is: none really. These are not reasonable requests. I’ll agree that your examples are not reasonable requests, but I will also say that your examples have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/334 "2022-10-27T22:15:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What word is one supposed to use in place of ‘vinegar’? “Acetic acid diluted to 5-8% acidity”. But that only works with white vinegar. Which is probably also problematic somehow. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/335 "2022-10-27T22:21:34Z")
I also agree that your examples are not reasonable requests. The problem with getting lots of feedback (i gather your have a successful YouTube channel, or something like that) is that the tiny percentage of nuts and assholes stand out, and color your whole perception. I would say that fundamentally, “a significant fraction of the population might be offended by that, rightly or wrongly” is very different from “people don’t understand that word/prefer a different word”, which is what most of your examples seem to be. (Or, “i am a raging pedant and can’t allow you to use the common meaning of ‘organic’ without making a stink.”) And while you might have had one person offended by “vinegar”, that’s not a word that any significant fraction of the English-speaking population is going to be upset by. All my Black friends use the word “vinegar” when talking about vinegar and i use it freely in their presence without causing offense. I know that’s just my situation, but I’m pretty certain my situation is the norm, in this case. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/336 "2022-10-27T22:25:41Z")
Sometimes people are just crazy and they have access to the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/337 "2022-10-27T22:40:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But it’s really true that people remember how they felt more than they remember what you said. If you are chatting with a friend at a bar, and a nearby patron thinks you are saying the “n word”, you may have ruined his day. And for what? Why risk casually hurting people? People also have had strong feelings about things like interracial dating. Should those feelings also be accommodated? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/338 "2022-10-27T22:50:20Z")
No, making people angry for failing to unjustly dominate others is morally distinct from hurting people by making them feel you are trying to unjustly dominate them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/339 "2022-10-27T22:51:15Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > How much of my vocabulary must I shed to accommodate people who lack understanding? How much do you care about the consequences of not accommodating them? If you ignore “don’t-say-vinegar” guy, the worst that’ll happen is he might stop watching your YouTube channel, so no big deal. On the other hand, you should probably avoid “niggardly,” though, because even though it’s every bit as non-racist as “vinegar,” the misperception is widespread enough, and YouTube enforcement being so garbage in general, there’s a non-negligible chance you might get your channel suspended. Same with “master bedroom.” Should you drop it from your vocabulary? Probably not. Unless your job involves describing houses to people, how often are you going to use the term? Particularly around people who don’t already know you? If you’re selling houses or renting apartments, maybe its a different calculus, but I don’t think it’s something most people need to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613/340 "2022-10-27T23:15:48Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think it would be better if people who mistake ‘niggle/niggling’ for a racist epithet, to be educated that it is not, rather than for everyone else to have to adjust their vocabulary to accommodate the ignorance of others. That would be nice, but it’s not going to happen, and the word is really not much of a loss since it has many synonyms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-racist-to-use-the-term-master-bedroom/973613.md?page=18)