# Is it really fair to diss Sally Ride for not coming out & being a role model for young gay women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 27, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533 "2012-07-27T04:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/21 "2012-07-27T15:38:32Z")
Why should she tell me or anyone else she didn’t know? I imagine their families and friends knew, and who else matters? I have had a couple kinds of cancer, including breast cancer, and I don’t march in the survivor’s parades, and I definitely don’t have anything with a pink ribbon. It’s my affair and the affair of those I choose to inform. If people want to tell the world, good for them. If they don’t, good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/22 "2012-07-27T15:46:40Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Nah, when you’re with someone for 27 years it’s not just about who you’re shagging. There’s no point in pretending long-term relationships are just about the two people involved, because they never are - unless they had an oddly-distanced relationship for nearly three decades, they will have seen neices and nephews grow up and make great-neices and nephews, lived together, gone on holidays together, had to decide whose family to spend Christmas/Hannukah etc with, all stuff that’s not just about them as a couple. We don’t live in a bubble. > > You can still choose to not come out and nobody should ever force you to, but most people will still know the truth about you and your special friend. > > FWIW, I’m a lesbian, in case that wasn’t already obvious. I’ve only known one very long-term couple who were both completely in the closet (and had lived together for 17 year by that point and were really obviously gay), and I can’t imagine how hard it must have been for them to keep up a charade for so long. As far as I can tell she was open in her private life. At the time she was in the spot light she was married to a man. If she was with a woman at the time maybe she would have been open with it then. Maybe not. For the last few decades she wasn’t exactly on the cover of the National Enquirer. No one was interested in her personal life. She chose not to make a press release stating she was a lesbian. So what? Its her choice. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/23 "2012-07-27T15:47:05Z")
I can see the argument for her being wrong not to come out. Some gays in the 60’s and 70’s came out of the closet and started living openly despite the fact that it made them social pariahs, estranged many of them from their families and in some cases subjected them to physical danger. But by building a visible community despite the personal consequences they made being openly gay more of a viable choice for other gays and made it less seem less transgressive to much of the rest of society. Sally Ride was able to live semi-openly with her partner with minimal social consequences because the previous generation of gays lived with the consequences of publicly advocating for acceptance. In the 80’s and 90’s, when Ride was living with her partner, society was still a long ways from being accepting though, so to the extent that her advocating her lifestyle would’ve made it easier for future gays, as the previous generation had made it easier for her, I can see where she had at least some moral obligation to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/24 "2012-07-27T15:48:18Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Isn’t the fundamental premise of gay liberation that each person’s sexuality is their own? > > It would have been fine if she had chosen to be outspoken about sexuality, but she certainly didn’t owe it to anyone. Bingo. I have male friends I’ve known for years that I was surprised to learn had live in girlfriends…their partnership status was just never part of the relationship between us. Topics of conversation are movies, books, politics, and lots and lots of gaming…not our personal lives. Straight people sometimes share this with everyone, and sometimes they don’t. There is no reason that gay people are under a different obligation. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/25 "2012-07-27T16:41:26Z")
> [@Pai325](#): > > I have had a couple kinds of cancer, including breast cancer, and I don’t march in the survivor’s parades, and I definitely don’t have anything with a pink ribbon. My wife is solidly in your corner on that one - after her mastectomy and chemo she said quite adamantly that she didn’t want ANYTHING to do with the “breast cancer Mafia”. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/26 "2012-07-27T17:18:09Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think she had every right to stay private. Ironically, IMO her coming out might have hurt the women’s cause and the lesbian’s cause. > > What was the stereotype back then? Women couldn’t do manly things. Lesbians were more like men and weren’t real women. > > Sally Ride as a first woman astronaut? See! “Real” women are capable of doing this manly things too! “Confirmation” that Lesbians aren’t real women doesn’t even come up. > > Sally Ride as first lesbian astronaut? See? “Real” women can’t do manly things? Its takes one of them weird lesbians to be interested in and do manly sciency shit! > > I think there might be a fair chance she thought coming out, particularly early on would actually do more harm than good at that time. Since then, though, some in the LGBT community have actually reembraced the old stereotypes. They’re a source of identity. They highlight gay history and pioneering. They resonate with the position that you’re Born That Way. And probably most importantly, they have a choice now, because they’ve won a much more secure place in the culture. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/27 "2012-07-27T17:24:59Z")
Just because you happen to belong to X group doesn’t mean you’re obliged to be a spokesperson for that group. Maybe she wanted to be known for her career and her accomplishments and not her sexual preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/28 "2012-07-27T17:50:48Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I can see the argument for her being wrong not to come out. Some gays in the 60’s and 70’s came out of the closet and started living openly despite the fact that it made them social pariahs, estranged many of them from their families and in some cases subjected them to physical danger. But by building a visible community despite the personal consequences they made being openly gay more of a viable choice for other gays and made it less seem less transgressive to much of the rest of society. It’s hard to overstate the bravery necessary to be part of that first wave of openly, defiantly gay people. But one way you could dramatically undercut their bravery is to take the position that everyone who was gay was obligated to come out. If you’re under an obligation to do something, fulfilling that obligation is not heroic. A hero is someone who does _more_ than they’re obligated to do. Criticizing Ride for not being a hero in the arena of gay rights is an immense disservice to the people who willing to make the immense sacrifices necessary to get us to where we are today. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/29 "2012-07-28T03:28:24Z")
Very well said, **Miller**. I can add nothing to how you put it. You said it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/30 "2012-07-28T04:59:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It would have been nice if, after any career-killing reasons for staying had passed, she’d come out. OTOH, I don’t know if those were her other reasons for staying in - she might have had religious, family, or some other reason for staying in. Maybe her partner also had reasons for staying in the closet. I know virtually nothing about Sally Ride’s personal life, but as I mentioned in another thread the timeline of her career at NASA itself hints at reasons why she might have chosen not to go public with her relationship with Tam O’Shaughnessy. 1978: Ride begins working for NASA. 1982: Ride marries astronaut Steve Hawley 1983: Ride becomes first American woman in space. 1985: Ride begins relationship with Tam O’Shaughnessy. 1986: Challenger disaster. 1987: Ride divorces Hawley, leaves NASA. (All dates taken from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Ride).) Even if Ride and Hawley’s divorce was a friendly one, and I don’t know that it was, the ending of a relationship between two people who work as part of a close-knit team in a stressful and dangerous field has to be pretty awkward not just for the couple but for their colleagues as well. And it’s not like there wasn’t enough for the folks at NASA to be stressed about around this same time; the Challenger disaster occurred after Ride became involved with O’Shaughnessy but before she and Hawley divorced. Even after she left NASA, Ride might have been concerned that if she came out publicly she’d generate negative publicity for the organization or damage her ex-husband’s reputation. I mean, even now there would probably be jokes about a public figure whose wife left him for another woman, and 25 years ago I expect it would have been even worse. As time past these concerns presumably diminished, but so did Ride’s prominence in the public eye. To the best of my knowledge she wasn’t dodging questions about her love life on major talk shows or anything. If Ride was by nature a private person she was probably happy not to have to deal with such questions and I can understand her not being eager to issue a public statement announcing that she was gay or bi. FWIW though, Ride apparently wanted her relationship with O’Shaughnessy to be acknowledged in her obituary. While this may not seem like much, young gay women today do at least know that a woman regarded as an American hero also loved another woman. Ride could have attempted to keep this a secret that would die with her, but she didn’t. I’m happy that we’ve reached the point where a same-sex partner being acknowledged in a public figure’s obituary doesn’t seem like that big of a deal, but it wasn’t that long ago that many of Susan Sontag’s obituaries neglected to mention her relationship with Annie Leibovitz – and Sontag was openly bisexual. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533/31 "2012-07-28T07:22:28Z")
Just came across an interesting article on _Scientific American_ entitled [Why Aren’t There Any Openly Gay Astronauts?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-arent-there-any-openly-gay-astronauts): > [@](#): > > Ride’s decision to keep her sexual orientation private reflects her very private nature, sources said. But the lack of even one openly gay or lesbian astronaut in the history of American spaceflight may reflect the culture at the NASA astronaut office. Although NASA does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, Michael Cassutt, author of five books and hundreds of articles about human spaceflight, said coming out would until recently have been “a career-wrecker” for an astronaut. “Not for any formal reason, but in the same way that any medical issue or even some kind of notoriety has been an astronaut career-wrecker,” Cassutt told [SPACE.com](http://SPACE.com). > > “Any issue that detracts from the mission is or has been the kind of thing an astronaut wants to avoid. It isn’t NASA politics; it is NASA politics as practiced at the astronaut office,” Cassutt said, adding that the office has often resembled a “military squadron.” The obvious reference to the military DADT policy is made as well. So it seems the issue was fraught with much more conflict than we may be aware. I’d wondered aloud in the [other thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659663) about the meaning of “openly gay,” and the distinction between “coming out” and “coming out quietly” - not to mention Dr. Ride’s status as an icon in the LGBT community. Sullivan says, “But the truth remains: she had a chance to expand people’s horizons and young lesbians’ hope and self-esteem, and she chose not to.” Well, she has now, hasn’t she? Will horizons and hope and self-esteem not expand simply because Dr. Ride is dead? It seems to me she was an “absent heroine” only in the sense that she refused the media circus; by all accounts she was not closeted to those who knew her. I don’t know that you can say she owed any more than she gave. Sullivan sounds wounded that she didn’t sacrifice her privacy for the cause, but he seems to be ignoring the very real contribution her obituary revelation can make. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-fair-to-diss-sally-ride-for-not-coming-out-being-a-role-model-for-young-gay-women/629533.md?page=1)