# Is it really necessary to portray the election of the opposing candidate as the end of humanity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 10, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121 "2012-08-10T20:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/61 "2012-08-14T20:34:51Z")
What definition of either “reasonable” OR “dialogue” includes one side simply saying “No” to everything? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/62 "2012-08-14T20:38:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So what? _So fucking what?_ Yeah, I get that it would. But failing to recognize that and acting as though reasonable dialogue were possible, and thus offering failed compromise after failed compromise is potentially even more disastrous. And even if it weren’t, guess what: whether it’s true or not is hardly even still up for debate! We’ve established with astounding regularity that the republican party aims to hold true to its promise to keep Obama a one-term president, regardless of the cost. We’ve seen their obstructionist policies, we’ve seen how they act in congress. Yes, _if I’m wrong_… Oh well, big fucking deal, because, newsflash, **I’m not** , and it doesn’t take a fucking genius to figure that out. Well, you don’t seem to fucking realize that it actually **is** fucking possible to have fucking reasonable debate, but that your assertion that it **isn’t** effectively prevents it from fucking happening. Your labeling of Republican disagreement with the Democrats as to where the country should go underscores where the problem lies. You see, what you’re doing is belittling the other side’s arguments by painting them as “obstructionist”–in other words, WE have a noble, shining vision for America, but THEY are only opposing us for the sake of opposing us. You can’t possibly be so obtuse as to see how this extremist point of view may not be…um, entirely accurate. Are you unwilling to concede that the Republicans may truly, honestly feel that Obama’s policies are bad for America? Do you really think that their opposition is mindless and reflexive? Or are you just using fucking hyperbole to try to tell us (as if we couldn’t figure it out) to tell us that you hate all things Republican? (By the way, I actually favor most of what Obama has done and wants to do.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/63 "2012-08-14T20:41:03Z")
Dude. They’ve consistently opposed\* their own fucking ideas \*just because Obama supported them. Health care is only one example. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/64 "2012-08-14T20:45:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Despite that being the opposite of the result everywhere else it’s been put in place. 😃 Don’t you believe in American exceptionalism? We’re the exception! ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/65 "2012-08-14T20:46:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What definition of either “reasonable” OR “dialogue” includes one side simply saying “No” to everything? That’s the way the Democrats have painted Republican responses to their agenda, and it’s a childishly inaccurate oversimplification. The Republicans have propsed alternatives to every major Obama initiative, but those alternatives have _never_ been given **ANY** consideration by the Democrats. Now, THAT’S saying “no” to everything–the Demos crapped on the Republican version of the health care bill, the stimulus bill(s), the bailout(s), every single federal budget, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. The Obama administration has given short shrift to everything the Republicans propose. Although much dialogue does, in fact, occur “behind the scenes,” and thus, neither side actually “says ‘no’ to everything,” it’s closer to the truth that BOTH sides say “no” to each other than that one does and the other doesn’t. I am amused by how you folks dig in your heels and refuse to relent on your position, _ **because of the Republicans’ inflexibility** _. People who don’t realize the irony of their own utterances are a rich source of humor. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/66 "2012-08-14T20:47:25Z")
Not only that, what exactly do you think Republicans were elected to do? Back in 2008, we heard that elections have consequences. Then in 2010, we were supposed to pretend that the election never happened. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/67 "2012-08-14T20:54:54Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > The Republicans have propsed alternatives to every major Obama initiative, but those alternatives have _never_ been given **ANY** consideration by the Democrats. When did they put forward the system they say they want to “repeal and replace” ACA with? I must have missed that day in school. What “alternatives” can you point to from the Republicans that are anything other than “We propose you go fuck yourselves”? Where can we find something more than a list of vapid platitudes that you laughingly call “policy proposals”? Where? > [@](#): > > the Republican version of the health care bill, the stimulus bill(s), the bailout(s), every single federal budget, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Dude. _There weren’t any._ :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > what exactly do you think Republicans were elected to do Act responsibly. What, do you think they were elected to throw nonstop tantrums? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/68 "2012-08-14T20:57:29Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Well, you don’t seem to fucking realize that it actually **is** fucking possible to have fucking reasonable debate, but that your assertion that it **isn’t** effectively prevents it from fucking happening. …No, that’s not it. :rolleyes: I think it has a little more to do with the actions the republicans have taken, thanks. > [@](#): > > Your labeling of Republican disagreement with the Democrats as to where the country should go underscores where the problem lies. You see, what you’re doing is belittling the other side’s arguments by painting them as “obstructionist”–in other words, WE have a noble, shining vision for America, but THEY are only opposing us for the sake of opposing us. No! For fuck’s sake, are you even _listening_? Did you read a thing I said? This is _not_ what I’m arguing! I am _not_ laying a blanket over republican actions and labeling them “obstructionist”. I am citing _specific_ examples of where republican policy is intentionally obstructionist or destructive. The debt ceiling being the #1 case. > [@](#): > > You can’t possibly be so obtuse as to see how this extremist point of view may not be…um, entirely accurate. Are you unwilling to concede that the Republicans may truly, honestly feel that Obama’s policies are bad for America? Do you really think that their opposition is mindless and reflexive? Or are you just using fucking hyperbole to try to tell us (as if we couldn’t figure it out) to tell us that you hate all things Republican? > > (By the way, I actually favor most of what Obama has done and wants to do.) I don’t object to what the republicans have done out of principle. I _never_ asserted that. In fact, I’ve made it immensely clear on multiple occasions that my hatred for the republican party comes specifically from their current policies, and my hatred for those policies is assessed on a one-by-one basis. It just so happens that said policies are overwhelmingly destructive, and the party would have to be filled with _complete jackasses_ to do half of what they’re doing in good will. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that they are not all completely pants-on-head retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/69 "2012-08-14T21:01:10Z")
Fanatics can’t think in rational terms - if they could, they wouldn’t be fanatics. This kind of thing always happens on the SDMB during a Presidential election - during the primaries, whoever is ahead for the GOP is the worst person who ever lived. Then someone sews up the nomination, and that person becomes the worst person who ever lived. There is a contingent of out-and-out nutcases hereabouts for whom “I hate Republicans” is the sum and pinnacle of their thinking. I think they are a little more vocal now, because there is a chance that Obama might lose. Even if he wins, the House is likely to remain Republican, and the GOP is likely to pick up some seats in the Senate as well. So BHO and Co. is not likely to achieve much next term either. And that rankles. A lot of folks around here can’t disagree without being disagreeable. It’s too bad, but it’s not universal. Some people are idiots, and most of the idiots around here are lefties. So they blow a gasket every time they see a threat to their world view. It will be damned entertaining to watch the meltdowns if Romney wins. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/70 "2012-08-14T21:03:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Some people are idiots, and most of the idiots around here are lefties. This is very, _very_ funny for several reasons. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/71 "2012-08-14T21:04:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > THERE IS NO GODDAMN REASONING WITH THEM! > [@greenslime1951](#): > > This kind of assertion would certainly prevent reasonable dialogue whether it was true or not. Not entirely. It should be possible to have a reasonable dialog over whether the assertion was true. Much of this thread appears to have consisted of evidence in support of the validity of the assertion. I could point to examples of you gainsaying the assertion, but not to examples of you posting evidence that supports a counter-assertion that it is not valid. I could be mistaken, however. If I am, would you be so kind as to link to the posts in which you have provided such evidence? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/72 "2012-08-14T21:06:16Z")
No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/73 "2012-08-14T21:19:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Dude. _There weren’t any._ :rolleyes: Well, in fairness, **adaher** , you did include Republican budget proposals. Those did exist. They did include shutting the government down and downgrading its credit rating for no clear, stated, overriding reason. And later there was the one that proposed killing Medicare to pay for ending virtually all taxation on the wealthy, but I didn’t include them as serious because _they fucking couldn’t have been fucking serious_. Are you saying they _were_? :eek: Oh, wait, they just picked the guy who wrote it as their VP candidate. They \*were \*serious. Just not responsible. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/74 "2012-08-15T04:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=Budget Player Cadet;15384085I am citing _specific_ examples of where republican policy is intentionally obstructionist or destructive. The debt ceiling being the #1 case. [/QUOTE] This is a _great_ example of what I mean. The Republicans were demonized for opposing _yet another_ reflexive raising of the debt ceiling. But what good is a “ceiling” if it can be raised at will? The Republicans who opposed it that time around were saying, look, the administration that exists at the time of a proposed debt ceiling raise–Republican _or_ Democrat–raises the specter of a government shutdown to essentially blackmail Congress into raising the debt ceiling, because if they don’t vote to raise it, Grandma won’t get her check in the mail and she’ll be very very mad come election time. Now, raising the debt ceiling essentially moves the crisis over the event horizon, thereby making it temporarily invisible. But it isn’t exactly a smart move in the long run. It’s like signing up for a new credit card to pay off the balance on all the others (or, more accurately, to pay the minimum monthly payment). So the Republicans believed they were acting out of a sense of fiscal responsibility, however misguided that may have been. The Democrats, being the party that depends on the continuance of government largesse to keep its core constituency happy, viewed a shutdown of government services as the ultimate disaster. So things were, in this instance, not as simplistic as you make them out to be. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/75 "2012-08-15T04:21:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Not entirely. It should be possible to have a reasonable dialog over whether the assertion was true. > > Much of this thread appears to have consisted of evidence in support of the validity of the assertion. I could point to examples of you gainsaying the assertion, but not to examples of you posting evidence that supports a counter-assertion that it is not valid. > > I could be mistaken, however. If I am, would you be so kind as to link to the posts in which you have provided such evidence? One need not, nor will I bother to, provide “evidence” to refute an assertion that is already ludicrously self-refuting. If there really was “no reasoning” with the Republicans, than no debate, dialogue, or discussion between them and the Democrats would have taken place in the entire last four years. The more wild-eyed on this board may assert that that is the case, but reality refutes that assertion. (And I realize, of course, that “no reasoning with them” is code for “they didn’t cave in to any of the Democrats’ demands.”) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/76 "2012-08-15T04:22:31Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > So the Republicans believed they were acting out of a sense of fiscal responsibility, however misguided that may have been. The Democrats, being the party that depends on the continuance of government largesse to keep its core constituency happy, viewed a shutdown of government services as the ultimate disaster. > > So things were, in this instance, not as simplistic as you make them out to be. No, even the rest of the world noticed that it is your simplistic idea here the one that is out of whack. > **[KAL's cartoon | Jul 30th 2011 Edition](https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2011/07/30/kals-cartoon)** > > The world this week ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/77 "2012-08-15T04:35:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No, even the rest of the world noticed that it is your simplistic idea here the one that is out of whack. > > [KAL's cartoon | Jul 30th 2011 Edition](http://www.economist.com/node/21524951) Let’s see…one editorial cartoon in a magazine is “the rest of the world”… And what exactly do you think is my “simplistic idea”? I’ll refresh your memory: that the two political parties should move on from personal attacks to an examination of issues and policy. Please read the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/78 "2012-08-15T04:39:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Fanatics can’t think in rational terms - if they could, they wouldn’t be fanatics. > > This kind of thing always happens on the SDMB during a Presidential election - during the primaries, whoever is ahead for the GOP is the worst person who ever lived. Then someone sews up the nomination, and that person becomes the worst person who ever lived. > > There is a contingent of out-and-out nutcases hereabouts for whom “I hate Republicans” is the sum and pinnacle of their thinking. I think they are a little more vocal now, because there is a chance that Obama might lose. Even if he wins, the House is likely to remain Republican, and the GOP is likely to pick up some seats in the Senate as well. So BHO and Co. is not likely to achieve much next term either. And that rankles. > > A lot of folks around here can’t disagree without being disagreeable. It’s too bad, but it’s not universal. Some people are idiots, and most of the idiots around here are lefties. So they blow a gasket every time they see a threat to their world view. > > It will be damned entertaining to watch the meltdowns if Romney wins. > > Regards, > Shodan Agreed on all points. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/79 "2012-08-15T05:06:42Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Let’s see…one editorial cartoon in a magazine is “the rest of the world”… > > And what exactly do you think is my “simplistic idea”? > > I’ll refresh your memory: that the two political parties should move on from personal attacks to an examination of issues and policy. > > Please read the OP. The simplistic idea is precisely to think that the democrats had one there, that and many issues are more complex than it “depends on the continuance of government largesse to keep its core constituency happy” The economy of many others was affected and simplistic ideas that “both where just intransigent” just allows for simplistic retelling of what actually took place. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121/80 "2012-08-15T05:13:14Z")
Also, It is too simple in claiming an equality that it is also illogical, simple logic should tell you that it would be hard to find that in \*\*all \*\*occasions, particularly the ones I pointed out, that both sides on an issue treated each other the same, or that the evidence supported both sides equally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-necessary-to-portray-the-election-of-the-opposing-candidate-as-the-end-of-humanity/631121.md?page=5)