# Is it really that bad in the U.S.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149 "2008-11-23T21:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/21 "2008-11-24T14:04:32Z")
Well, I’ll chime in and say that had I not been reading the papers, I wouldn’t have noticed (much) that there are economic problems. I live in an area that’s never had a good, thriving economy, so I suspect that’s a large part of it. Also, the main employers here are health care organizations and colleges, neither one of which are particularly hurt by slowdowns. I don’t know anyone (here or away from here) who’s lost a job. I’ve heard from my mortgage banker that there’s been some foreclosures here, but I wouldn’t have known otherwise; there don’t appear to be more or less houses for sale than any other year. About the only real thing that’s affected us is that my primary client is in an industry that’s not doing great right now, and I get a little worried that it’ll cut down the work they hand me. But that’s just a worry - I’m still as busy as ever. Mr. Athena’s main client is going through a buyout, but once again, it hasn’t affected him much, and may turn out to be in his favor - they’ve been saying that they’re phasing out his job for the last few years, but that may not happen given the lay-offs and project slowdowns and such. We’ve also found that contractors (like us) tend to be left alone when employees are laid off. So for us, at least, the economic slowdown has been theoretical rather than in our face. That said, we’re taking things easy, not spending tons of money, and not taking on any debt. Better safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/22 "2008-11-24T14:05:56Z")
The economy is in the shitter, for sure, but it isn’t horrible for me quite yet. I lost my job in August and started a new job for the same pay but much closer to home and a better work environment earlier this month. I had a spare room so I am renting it out to a friend who needed to find a new place to live or she was going to be evicted for not being able to pay her rent. Now she can afford to pay her bills and I have some extra rental income so it works out well for both of us. There are many people here that are having a much more difficult time of things though and I am very thankful that things are going so well for me right now. ---
**Author:** ![Finally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/67e7ee/32.png) [@Finally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finally)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/23 "2008-11-24T16:53:30Z")
My 401k took a hit but I’m more than 10 years away from retirement so I expect it will come back. I had my house on the market for 10 months and took it off, winter is a terrible time to try to sell a house in my lakeside community. A friend of mine lost his job but I don’t think it has to do with the economy, I think he’s just a goof off. So not-so-much, hopefully it will stay that way. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/24 "2008-11-24T16:58:21Z")
If you’re a good welder or machinist, I can get you a job in southern Ontario in about four minutes. Sucks if you don’t have those skills, though. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/25 "2008-11-24T17:00:37Z")
I am personally fine – for the moment. But my company is not doing very well, so there is always the possibilty that my job could be in jeopardy, though I’m not in any immediate danger. My house is paid off, so I have no issues regarding a mortgage. But if I were to sell it I would get a whole lot less than just a year or two ago. Ed ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/26 "2008-11-24T17:16:29Z")
I’m a freelance computer tech these days, and I am doing OK…people pretty much have to keep their computer working. I have no credit card debt at all, and no bills other than my rent and utilities (gas, electric and phone). So if I can make my monthly expenses and eat, I’m doing OK. But my brother is currently selling heating and air conditioning systems (he’s a master plumber, but had to get out of the trade). This is something people can’t live without, but everyone is getting five bids now, and all the builders who normally install junk AC systems in new houses (“Builder’s Grade” crap like Janitrol) have moved into the existing home business selling equipment at cost to keep their crews employed. The tight credit market means that nobody with a credit score of less than 750 is getting financed for a heating and air system. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/27 "2008-11-24T17:51:57Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > The people that did this stuff helped drive up the prices by speculation and create the bubble that popped. It’s not easy to feel sorry for them. Nope. No sympathy for them from here. They did this so late in the game that it makes me think they have no TV or newspaper service where they live. How could they NOT know? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/28 "2008-11-24T18:44:37Z")
[http://www.realquest.com/rq/default.aspx#](http://www.realquest.com/rq/default.aspx#) See for yourself. Type in a zip and close in. Then the foreclosures will come up as flags. Start with mine 48127. Then you can move about like google earth. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/29 "2008-11-24T19:12:54Z")
ISTM that the hardest hit places are where jobs haven’t been for a while anyway(Rust Belt) or places that have experienced a large influx of idiots to add to their own not-insubstantial base (Las Vegas, Florida, SoCal). Yeah, it sucks to be there, but it wasn’t unforeseeable. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/30 "2008-11-24T19:55:06Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > One of our family members lives in Florida and purchased two properties in addition to the (very nice) one the family lives in. They can’t sell them and can’t even rent them out for the amount of their mortgage payment. Florida is one of the hardest-hit areas, along with Texas and California. I don’t see this turning around for them any time soon. > > The Chicago area is doing pretty good by comparison. We always seem to take less of a hit than other areas in the country. Yes. My in-laws bought a condo in Florida (southeastern part of the state) about 6 years ago. 2-3 years after that, for various reasons, they decided to move. And bought a new condo before unloading the old one. They have been unable to sell, after 3+ years on the market, and they can’t even find a renter for it. Money is becoming very, very tight for them and we’re looking at having to find money to help them out. We’re fortunate - DC metro area and there are still some jobs. But Typo Knig is likely to have to make a change soon and we don’t know what he’ll find or whether he’ll be able to get a decent salary. Our house has dropped 100K+ in value - which is fine as long as we don’t have to move. Our retirement accounts have easily lost 40%, which is NOT so good as we’re counting on them to support us and leave some money to leave in trust for Dweezil. There was an article in the Post yesterday about how lack of oversight let a lot of the lenders get away with writing an enormous amount of bad loans. And I personally know someone who got a mortgage from a predatory lender - she had no idea she was signing up for one of those loans with a 2% teaser rate, which did negative amortization. A year later, she owed a lot more than when she started. She got out of that - but into a 5-year ARM (which was the best she could afford at the time). Hopefully she’ll be able to afford it when it adjusts. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/31 "2008-11-24T20:18:17Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > And I personally know someone who got a mortgage from a predatory lender - she had no idea she was signing up for one of those loans with a 2% teaser rate, which did negative amortization. A year later, she owed a lot more than when she started. She got out of that - but into a 5-year ARM (which was the best she could afford at the time). Hopefully she’ll be able to afford it when it adjusts. But some people were just damned stupid. Three years ago I worked with a young man who bought a house at a price that was already too high to begin with, and at the very top of their budget, but to top it off, he and his wife signed up for a 3.5% ARM. Madness, I said. Mortgage rates aren’t going lower, but your ARM can most certainly go up! Why don’t you get a fixed 6%? He said that the payment at the 3.5 ARM was the most they could afford, and blew off possibilities of it going higher as being some time in the future that he wasn’t worried about. I’ve lost contact with the guy since I’ve moved jobs several times, but I wonder if they’re still living in that house. Most certainly the guy who bought MY house in January 2003 isn’t still living there. It looks empty now, the yard overgrown. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/32 "2008-11-24T20:53:56Z")
Well, we aren’t deciding which child to eat for dinner, but it’s not fun. I work as a nurse, so you’d think I’d be golden. And I would have been, if I’d stayed in a horrible, toxic environment, but 2 years ago I switched from that to same day surgery. Our pt load is down, down, down. Lots of outpt surgery is somewhat “optional” and people don’t want the expense. We don’t do any cosmetic surgery: we do mostly circumcision (which could be considered cosmetic, but I digress), hernia repairs, D & C’s, tonsillectomies, arthroscopies, foot surgeries etc. Example: on Mondays we run about 20-30 pts/day. Today we had 5. We have NO cases scheduled at all on Wed and Friday of this week–the 2 days I was scheduled to work. I’m per diem, so when I don’t work, there is no PTO or vacation day pay I can use. I have applied for 2 other jobs (I’m trying to change fields on top of all this) and hope to hear soon. I’d apply to more, but those are the only two out there at present that meet my income needs, my available transportation etc. This could get uglier quite quickly. Throw in that I’d like to get a divorce ASAP and this is not a pretty picture. I need FT work. I can most likely get it as a floor nurse. I am holding out to see if I can switch fields and maybe ride the holidays out. If not, come January, I’m looking at staff nursing again. Ugh–but it will keep the wolf from the door and allow me to get on with my life. I have started clipping coupons (something I didn’t really bother with before. If I had a coupon I used it, but wasn’t proactive about it). I buy house brands. I cut the family off soda pop entirely (huge savings, btw). I never did buy chips and packaged snacks. I won’t buy an article of clothing unless it’s on sale and it’s needed etc. When it was warmer, I rode my bike to many around town errands. I haven’t joined the gym(but would like to). I check books out and rent DVDs instead of going to the movies. I’m not real sure just what the next steps would be, but it’d probably be cut the cable TV. We’d move, but who’d buy our house? We don’t have an ARM, but we do have a second mortgage and 20K of credit card debt to pay off. We aren’t starving and many are worse off. The kids have been told that this Christmas is one present under the tree and small stuff in the stockings. I am trying very hard to not stop my charitable contributions (doctors without borders, planned parenthood and our church), but I know we have to cut back on our church contribution. So, belt is tightened with no end in sight. My husband works for a small credit union whose foreclosure rate may bankrupt them. If so, we are fucked unto the Lord. Happy New Year. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/33 "2008-11-24T21:12:24Z")
Many stores/chains are closing around here; that’s the thing I’ve actually noticed the most. I doubt that many people will be crowding the mall for the holiday shopping either. I am fortunate to have my job, PT though it is, plus another PT job on the same campus; and online work; and selling stuff. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/34 "2008-11-24T21:28:17Z")
In terms of stores closing, the Baker’s Square near me closed in September (restaurant). Now one of the country clubs has closed (early November). We have 6 country clubs within about a 5 mile radius of my house, and one is now gone. Another went public a few years ago. My car repair shop no longer takes personal checks. Good news: I just got some hours on this Friday. I have to go in at 0530, but that’s ok. It’s a few hours (until about 1100). ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/35 "2008-11-25T00:42:13Z")
Here in norcal, just about all of my friends have left the state as they have lost jobs. I don’t know anyone who is being foreclosed on, but I do know several people whose apartments have changed hands. Houses that were seven hundred thou one year ago are now on the market for 250k or 300k- quite a savings if you can get it. I have a pretty good job. Not likely I will get caught in the madness. I am check to check, but that’s cause I can’t budget and I like to spend money, not because of my circumstances. scary stuff. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/36 "2008-11-25T00:47:40Z")
A down the street neighbor was foreclosed on a few months ago. Lots of homes are for sale around my town, 2-3 houses per mile at least. Nobody I know has lost his or her job, yet. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/37 "2008-11-25T01:01:18Z")
I’m one of the lucky ones with a professional job that is relatively secure. However, when I bought my house 5 years ago, I had factored in that my current pay even without a raise would carry my budget. 5 years later, even with what would normally be generous raises in a decent economy, the rapid cost-of-living increases have proportionately outpaced my effective raises, and I’m now slowly getting bled by an insufficient budget. The house market sucks, so even if I wanted to sell into a cheaper home, I would lose tons of money trying to sell in this market. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/38 "2008-11-25T04:35:25Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > In terms of stores closing, the Baker’s Square near me closed in September (restaurant). All of the corporate owned Baker’s Squares closed. Only the franchise stores remain. Means three of the four I know about, including the one I worked at 30 years ago, are all gone now. Went to Applebee’s on Friday night after gaming. When we left at roughly 11:45pm, the place was maybe half full at best, maybe slightly less (on a Friday night!). When I drove past the Chili’s down the block, there were TWO cars in their lot - and those were probably employees. Had lunch at Green Mill today with my mother. When we left there about 12:30pm, there were four other occupied tables and two people at the bar. There were two cars and a school bus at the neighboring Dairy Queen (sit down). ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/39 "2008-11-25T14:43:27Z")
As noted, the problem originated with the sub-prime mortgages. Initially, the default rate on conforming mortgages held steady. The problem is cyclical though: the absurdly easy credit available to people who really couldn’t afford the loan, or who could only afford it as long as property values rose higher, led to inflated real estate prices. When that bubble ended, a whole cascade of financial ties broke, leading to a seizure in the lending markets. Simply put: banks don’t know what their loans are worth and are very hesitant to make new loans. This means people are finding it much harder to borrow money to buy a house, and thus the inventory of unsold houses increases, which drives prices down further… Which also makes even the buyers who can get the credit skittish about buying. And if you’re trying to sell AND buy a house, like you would to move when you’re already a homeowner, it’s a double whammy. > [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I work in the credit counseling industry so I’ve got a unique perspective. Creditors are starting to get pretty ruthless in their pursuit of debts. I’ve seen ‘‘account past due’’ letters with wording I can scarcely believe is legal. I read [in the WSJ a few weeks ago](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122369424667425525.html) about how debt collectors in Spain have gone beyond threatening letters and phone calls to using public humiliation as a (fairly effective) method of drumming out payments. Like a guy who comes knocking on the front door dressed as for a fancy funeral (in a mourning coat, top hat and bow tie), carrying a briefcase with DEBT COLLECTOR printed large letters, which he lays on the doorstep for public viewing while ringing up “the client”. Or a group of guys who dress as Franciscan monks and chant outside the door demanding the remission of the debt. ---
**Author:** ![Jelymag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jelymag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jelymag)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149/40 "2008-11-25T19:33:50Z")
I haven’t seen a significant increase in the number of homeless people in the area I live, and I haven’t noticed an increase in the needs of local food banks or shelters. But this could be that they are in a perpetual state of need. I have seen more notices of forecloseure and subsequent auction than I ever have, by far. (It’s really sad. There are enormous yellow signs put up over the home’s door and garage that announce the auction coming on X date.) Jobs have been in bad shape for longer than people have realized, I think. My husband was laid off a little more than a year ago. The local employment office thought he would find something pretty quick since he has certain security authorizations, and it was almost ten months before he found anything. Lots of applications, a few interviews, but it took a long time. At least he found something before things started getting a lot worse. I’ve been looking for a part-time second job, just retail or something, but no one wants to hire right now. I think they’re nervous that sales might not be good and the holidays may not be as busy as they are hoping. I did read an article within the last week or two that said that the number of children in the US that “went hungry” on at least one occasion within the past year increased 50% over the year before. I’m not sure how the data was collected or how they arrived upon that statistic, but if it is even close to remotely accurate then I find that a really sad statement about how thigns are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-really-that-bad-in-the-u-s/474149.md?page=3)