# Is it reasonable to repeat an officer's full rank in an emergency multiple times like in Mass Effect 3? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683 "2021-12-08T07:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/1 "2021-12-08T07:02:38Z")
In the video game Mass Effect 3, just to really dig in the fact that Gunnery Chief Ashley WIlliams was promoted to Lieutenant Commander, Admiral Anderson repeatedly refers to her as “Lieutenant Commander Williams” instead of “Commander Williams”, wasting three syllables, even when he’s shouting into his commlink as the Reapers are attacking. Is it plausible for someone to do that a real life military situation? That doesn’t seem normal. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/2 "2021-12-08T07:12:32Z")
I have no military background, but it seems to me that in a situation like ME where the CO’s rank is Commander, insisting on using “Lieutenant Commander” would be a good idea in order to avoid the implication that Shepard and Williams are of equal rank. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/3 "2021-12-08T16:00:23Z")
I have no military background either, but as I understand it, in those ranks that are composite terms of two nouns each of which is also a rank individually, such as “Lieutenant Commander”, common usage is to use the higher-ranking of the two as an address. So a Lieutenant Commander could be correctly addressed as “Commander”. And a commanding officer of a vessel is always addressed as captain while aboard that vessel and in command, regardless of actual rank held, so there would be no such risk of misunderstanding or implied equality. > [@Smapti](#): > > I have no military background, but it seems to me that in a situation like ME where the CO’s rank is Commander, insisting on using “Lieutenant Commander” would be a good idea in order to avoid the implication that Shepard and Williams are of equal rank. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/4 "2021-12-08T16:14:43Z")
I have never played ME3, or any Mass Effect game for that matter. So I have no idea what is going on in-universe. But this is a difficult question to answer from a real-world perspective because there is probably too much artificiality already built into the video game. When I was a real-life naval officer, I was more used to be addressed by some sort of title or callsign on the radio. By watch station (like “bridge” or “Combat” or “Officer of the Deck”) or job (like “RTA” or “Ops”) internally, and by a single callsign for the whole ship when dealing with exterior communications (and that callsign might vary depending on the medium of communication). Or, you know, sometimes they would just use your name. Or “that asshole” if speaking about you. Honestly, I think _Generation Kill_ (the miniseries) at least tried to capture some of this. But do you really want to play a video game where you first have to be told what your job is that day, and where it might change from day to day or as the game progresses and have nothing to do with your actual name or what you were being called the day before? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/5 "2021-12-08T16:19:32Z")
In an emergency wouldn’t it be easier to just say “LC Williams”? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/6 "2021-12-08T16:19:59Z")
No one, ever, refers to a Lieutenant Commander as “LC.” Mister or Ms or maybe even just nothing but the name, perhaps, but not LC. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/7 "2021-12-08T16:37:16Z")
Not Navy but I think it’s safe to say that the short answer is no, nobody would call Commander Williams anything other than Commander Williams informally, especially in an emergency. That said, “Gunnery Chief” isn’t a real rank but it’s styled after a senior enlisted rank, and nobody gets promoted from senior enlisted ranks to O-4 directly, so whatever fictional military ME3 has created to exist in (checks wiki) 2186 might have different conventions. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/8 "2021-12-08T16:53:01Z")
I have seen full rank used for emphasis. Usually in a context comparable to a parent calling out a child by full name, including middle name(s): “someone is in trouble”. Plus, for further emphasis, “This is a direct order.” My citation is \> 2 decades USAF. Editing to add: I never would have seen interactions within the officer corps like this because I was enlisted. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/9 "2021-12-08T17:03:10Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Not Navy but I think it’s safe to say that the short answer is no, nobody would call Commander Williams anything other than Commander Williams informally, especially in an emergency. Hard disagree. There are many things they might call her, ranging from _nothing at all_ (just saying what you have to say as it’s clear you’re addressing her) to “Williams” to “Lieutenant Commander Williams” to “YOU [bleep]ING IDIOT WHOSE ABOUT TO GET US ALL KILLED!” and just about anything in between. And for what it’s worth, I actually was a Lieutenant Commander. And as much as I hear that it’s acceptable to address someone verbally as “Commander” (or, similarly, to address a Lieutenant Junior Grade as Lieutenant), actual rank was used so infrequently as a form of address that I could probably count on one hand the number of times I was ever addressed as either Lieutenant Commander or Commander. Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked to learn I was _never_ addressed as “Commander”. And of course that might vary from unit to unit or community to community, depending on the particular “culture.” I hear aviators don’t call anyone sir. But then I also know that’s not true because I’ve served with aviators. And while on the one hand aviators are supposed to be some of the “hippest chillest” people in the Navy, the worst, most ruthless CO I ever had was an aviator (and he’s currently under federal indictment for charges related to corruption and bribery). Anyway, this is very much in IMHO territory and I don’t think a factual answer to this question is possible. > [@gnoitall](#): > > Plus, for further emphasis, “This is a direct order.” I had an XO once who would sometimes finish by getting all serious and saying “This is a lawful order.” No one much liked him. (Okay, not entirely fair: no one much liked him _until he stopped saying stuff like that_: then he was ok). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/10 "2021-12-08T17:18:04Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I had an XO once who would sometimes finish by getting all serious and saying “This is a lawful order.” No one much liked him. (Okay, not entirely fair: no one much liked him _until he stopped saying stuff like that_ : then he was ok). Maybe a hijack but, to me, anyone adding, “this is a lawful order” to an order would raise a red flag with me. I would assume ALL orders I was given were lawful orders unless they were so on the fringe that someone felt the need to add that what they just said was, indeed, a lawful order. That would make me immediately scrutinize that order and consider whether it should be followed. Sometimes we see in TV and movies a person making it clear that what they just said was an order. I can see that happening on occasion to note that what was said was not rhetorical or a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/11 "2021-12-08T19:23:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > this is a lawful order Sometimes this seems like a formulaic usage to be able to testify at a court-martial on a charge of violating [Article 92](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dereliction_of_duty). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/12 "2021-12-08T21:18:34Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I have never played ME3, or any Mass Effect game for that matter. So I have no idea what is going on in-universe. But this is a difficult question to answer from a real-world perspective because there is probably too much artificiality already built into the video game. When I was a real-life naval officer, I was more used to be addressed by some sort of title or callsign on the radio. By watch station (like “bridge” or “Combat” or “Officer of the Deck”) or job (like “RTA” or “Ops”) internally, and by a single callsign for the whole ship when dealing with exterior communications (and that callsign might vary depending on the medium of communication). That’s my experience, too. As a rule, you’re never supposed to use people’s names or ranks on the radio; instead, you’re supposed to address them by their position. Here’s an example (all codes are loosely translated from Hebrew). Say Lieutenant Colonel Castro is in command of the 932nd Infantry Battalion (current code name: “Domino”). If you want to get him on the radio, you don’t call for “Colonel Castro”; Instead, you ask for “Point Domino” - with “point” being the standard word for commander. If you want the XO, you ask for “Deputy Domino”. The Communications Officer is “Mercury Domino”, the doctor is “Mast Domino”, the intelligence officer is “Butterfly Domino”, and so on. The only time you’ll use someone’s name is to get their attention during an emergency, in which case you’ll probably just use their first name, because why the hell not. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/13 "2021-12-08T22:37:42Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > In the video game Mass Effect 3, just to really dig in the fact that Gunnery Chief Ashley WIlliams was promoted to Lieutenant Commander,… Was this meant to dig it in to the player, or to the in-universe characters? Because I imagine there might be real-world situations where the top brass might want to emphasize something like that to the troops under them. For instance, if she’s now senior to someone she was formerly junior to, and that former senior has just royally screwed up, so you want to make sure everyone follows her competent orders instead of his incompetent ones. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-reasonable-to-repeat-an-officers-full-rank-in-an-emergency-multiple-times-like-in-mass-effect-3/955683/14 "2021-12-09T13:59:44Z")
I’ve not had any military service, but worked in the aerospace industry with lots of retired military folks. A term they used was “telephone colonel”. Meaning that Lieutenant Colonels answered the phone with “Colonel xxxx” instead of “Lieutenant Colonels xxx”