# Is it rude to expect your guests to pray with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558 "2011-11-30T15:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/61 "2011-11-30T19:41:10Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > So, why do I enjoy being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Passover ritual, but being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Christian grace pisses me off? Because in the Christian grace, it’s being assumed that you actually do believe, rather than just going through the motions to be polite, and in the Jewish Passover, you are taking the role of a stranger being instructed. In fact, in general, the Christians are supposed to try to convert you, and the Jews are supposed to try to dissuade you from being converted (at least as I understand it). ---
**Author:** ![Orionizer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orionizer/32/4442_2.png) [@Orionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orionizer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/62 "2011-11-30T19:41:42Z")
I wouldn’t mind doing it at their house, but my sister and her husband insist on doing this everywhere we go, including out to restaurants. It’s extremely irritating to me, as I’m pretty agnostic myself. They do the whole handholding thing, too. My nieces and nephew know if they’re sitting beside me, the circle is broken. They don’t even reach for me anymore… ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/63 "2011-11-30T19:53:33Z")
I don’t mind the praying, to any deity or the universe in general, truly. While, in life, I am a hand holder, I am not keen to hold your child’s hand, before I eat. You may be immune to whatever’s going around in his world, but I have no children, making me fertile ground for any bug. It’s flu season, and everyone is about to eat, it just seems ill advised. I think holding hands should be for when your family is alone together. But I’m sure that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/64 "2011-11-30T19:53:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What with the nekkid ladies and all? Exactly. I think it is rude that I have not been invited to a nice, naked lady dancing / open fire / animal sacrifice stereotypical event dammit. What, don’t they want to convert me? I do agree that if you invited the Southern Baptists over to your bacchanalia celebration you are asking for a bit of a reaction, no doubt. I am also sure that there are many Christians who would not go to a traditional Passover celebration as well. However, I also think that there are plenty of Christians like yours truly that would happily show respect to the faith of others (or lack of faith for that matter) when guests in their home. Just show me how to quietly give you respect and we are all good. Now - who is throwing the Druidic Doper meeting and inviting me? I need to find a way to justify a business trip to your area so that I can partake and prove my open-minded willingness to respect your need to dance naked around the fire while I gnaw on some freshly sacrificed wild game. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/65 "2011-11-30T20:05:18Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > On the other hand, I had a Jewish friend once who invited a bunch of people over to participate in a traditional Passover. Eager to learn and have fun, I went, I engaged in all the rituals, I read some scriptures aloud as the book was being passed around the room, and I had a good time. I even ate gifelte fish… blech! I thought it was nice to be invited to share in someone’s rituals and to learn a bit about a religious event I had not experienced before. I didn’t believe any of it, and our host knew that. Everyone had a good time. > > So, why do I enjoy being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Passover ritual, but being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Christian grace pisses me off? Because a Seder is a specifically religious activity, while a regular old meal is not. When I accept someone’s invitation to go to their church I don’t mind fitting in either. This issue never came up much, because, luckily for me, my father-in-law is an atheist also. However I don’t bow my head for anyone, but since everyone else supposedly has their eyes closed, they wouldn’t know. I don’t think I ever got stuck holding hands - which I object to since I’m not a Campfire Girl. If I was in a situation where this happened frequently I think I would develop a sudden need to visit the john, and tell them to go on without me. Just to be sure I’d bring a book. War and Peace. ---
**Author:** ![slm2955](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@slm2955](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slm2955)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/66 "2011-11-30T20:24:22Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Starting when I was about 13, whenever anyone announced a prayer at a family function, I would bow my head but keep my eyes open. I found out who the other closet-non-Christian family members were by darting my gaze from person to person. The ones who also kept their eyes open were, coincidentally, always my favorite people 😛 I used to do that too in church, when the pastor asked everyone to bow their heads and pray, my eyes would be wide open staring at everyone lol. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/67 "2011-11-30T20:24:53Z")
I’m with those who say that it’s not rude to expect guests to be silent and respectful during prayer. My family says grace over family meals. We don’t expect our friends and loved ones who don’t share in our beliefs to do anything more than allow us a moment of respectful silence. We certainly don’t want to put pressure on them to be more religious. Of course, none of us are really into organized religion, and evangelism on the basis of implied superiority is one of the things that bothers us the most about it. Expecting guests to pray _with_ us, on the other hand, would be totally offensive. It implies that the hosts think that how to pray in their religion is required knowledge for all guests, and as such that their religion is more important than their guests’. It’s also against many religions to pray to gods other than their own. ---
**Author:** ![slm2955](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@slm2955](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slm2955)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/68 "2011-11-30T20:25:23Z")
But I think It’s only rude if the guests don’t practice the same religion as you. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/69 "2011-11-30T20:41:16Z")
> [@slm2955](#): > > But I think It’s only rude if the guests don’t practice the same religion as you. That’s a good point. If they are, it’s perhaps even a show of respect for them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/70 "2011-11-30T20:49:10Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > For those that think it’s bad manners to expect a guest to feel awkward by joining a prayer, would it work the other way? You mean if religious people turn up as guests and insist on performing some ritual that makes their host feel awkward? Yep - that’s rude too. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/71 "2011-11-30T21:21:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > You mean if religious people turn up as guests and insist on performing some ritual that makes their host feel awkward? Yep - that’s rude too. So its rude to exercise their rite as a host and as a guest? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/72 "2011-11-30T21:22:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > However I don’t bow my head for anyone What would you do in Japan? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/73 "2011-11-30T21:25:30Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > What would you do in Japan? I believe that is bowing _to_, not bowing _for_. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/74 "2011-11-30T21:27:29Z")
This really is a bit bizarre to me. It seems so clear. Forcing a guest to engage in your rituals is bad hosting. Staying quiet while your host indulges their rituals is being a good guest. Forcing your rituals on your host is bad manners. This is all basic manners. Why is there even a debate? Are that many people so socially fucked up? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/75 "2011-11-30T21:28:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe that is bowing _to_, not bowing _for_. I don’t see anything other than semantic wordplay there. What do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/76 "2011-11-30T21:34:59Z")
I think it’s rude to expect them to actively take part, like actually asking the blessing or saying amen or whatever, unless you know such a thing is compatible with their beliefs. It’s _not_ rude to expect them to sit or stand quietly for a minute or two while the blessing is being asked. The hand-holding is an altogether thornier issue because the unbroken circle is such a powerful religious and secular symbol of community and togetherness. Being part of the circle can mean “I join you in offering this praise to the Deity” but it can also mean “we come together as a community despite our religious differences as we break this bread together.” Leaving someone out of the circle can mean “we respect your right not to join us in offering praise the Deity” but it can also mean “you’re not truly welcome as a member of our community because you’re different from us.” Whether it’s rude to ask someone to hold hands with you while you pray depends pretty heavily on what the hand-holding means to each of you. As for people coming over and praying, more power to 'em. It generally won’t occur to me to make the offer, but it’s generally a moot point because people who would pray aloud or silently are going to do it regardless. I’m not going to start eating while I’m aware someone is praying, though I might go on and fill my plate. Not because of any particular religious respect, it just strikes me as bad manners to start shoveling food into my gob while my guests are still getting themselves situated at table. I’d wait for someone who was cutting up their kid’s food or getting their napkin sorted out or taking a pill or something, so why wouldn’t I wait for them to finish praying? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/77 "2011-11-30T21:39:41Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > This really is a bit bizarre to me. It seems so clear. > > Forcing a guest to engage in your rituals is bad hosting. > > Staying quiet while your host indulges their rituals is being a good guest. > > Forcing your rituals on your host is bad manners. > > This is all basic manners. Why is there even a debate? Are that many people so socially fucked up? This exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/78 "2011-11-30T21:41:37Z")
Is it rude to expect the guests to eat at the table? What if one of them wants to eat in front of the TV in the other room? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/79 "2011-11-30T21:48:04Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’m not going to start eating while I’m aware someone is praying, During grace is a good time to start slurping your soup. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/80 "2011-11-30T21:54:08Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > So its rude to exercise their rite as a host and as a guest? Why not? Some things make other people feel awkward - and it’s rude to do these whether you are a host or a guest. There’s no reason why this should be symmetrical. It’s rude for me to pick my nose at the table, regardless whether it’s my party or someone else’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=5)