# Is it rude to expect your guests to pray with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558 "2011-11-30T15:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/81 "2011-11-30T21:55:26Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I don’t see anything other than semantic wordplay there. What do you mean? The difference between politely acknowledging someone’s existence, and politely conceding to someone’s superiority or the superiority of the premise they put forth. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/82 "2011-11-30T22:00:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Is it rude to expect the guests to eat at the table? What if one of them wants to eat in front of the TV in the other room? Obviously not. It - as you know- is a scale. I realise judging the scale of reasonableness requires a social skill, but it’s a pretty low standard of skill required, and is intuitive to mist of the human race; just like every other social interaction. Anyone who honestly needs this explained to them has some form of Aspergers or similar. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/83 "2011-11-30T22:05:17Z")
Several thoughts. I don’t think it’s rude to go ahead with accustomed rituals as a host, even if some of your guests don’t share your belief. Expecting active participation from them is rude, though, and openly noticing their non-participation is just as rude. Call it the Walter Cunningham rule. If your guest eats his peas with his knife or pours syrup over everything on his plate, you shut up and let him do it. Putting him on the spot is wrong. As a guest, you should respect any accustomed rituals followed in your host’s home. That doesn’t mean you have to participate, but you darn sure should be unobtrusive about it. If you don’t care to hold hands, just back out of the way a bit and let the circle go by you. If you’re okay with that, just sit quietly. That being said, I think there’s a big difference between an atheist and a believer in that situation. As an atheist, I think you shouldn’t be expected to participate in religious rituals because it’s like expressing a belief you don’t hold. Fair enough. However, as a believer, participation in a ritual for a different religion can amount to a direct violation of your own religion. In the example of asking Christian family members to participate in a Wiccan blessing, that would be asking them to pray to a foreign deity. It’s still no reason for them to be loudly disruptive or disrespectful, but it is a whole different kettle of fish from asking a nonbeliever. Oh, and what I didn’t include in the second paragraph. If you normally pray before a meal, but your host doesn’t do that, it won’t offend God if you keep it between you and Him this time. Making a big deal out of it really is like praying on the street corner. It’s just for show. If you have to do it out loud, and you know it’s not part of your host’s practice, excuse yourself quietly and take it elsewhere, or do it before you go. Using your prayer of thanks to make a point strikes me as both a violation of charity and taking the Lord’s name in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/84 "2011-11-30T22:06:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The difference between politely acknowledging someone’s existence, and politely conceding to someone’s superiority or the superiority of the premise they put forth. If that’s what was meant, I agree. It takes the poster in question to clarify that, though. Not an intuitive use of the words where I’m from. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/85 "2011-11-30T22:14:41Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > So, why do I enjoy being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Passover ritual, but being invited as a non-believing participant in someone else’s Christian grace pisses me off? Perhaps because you know that they’re not trying to peddle their religion on you, given that they aren’t accepting new members? ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/86 "2011-12-01T00:54:22Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Why not? Some things make other people feel awkward - and it’s rude to do these whether you are a host or a guest. There’s no reason why this should be symmetrical. > > It’s rude for me to pick my nose at the table, regardless whether it’s my party or someone else’s. I guess, and I say this as an atheist, expecting to be the special flower, who gets to set the tone and rules as an invited guest welcomed in someone else’s home to break bread because you have special insight into all things deist. is the height of self-indulgent, arrogant, douchebaggery. YMOV… As a side note, equivocating something as innocuous and meaningless as a prayer, grace or holding a friend’s hand before dinner with picking your nose is as precious and special a move as I have seen in a while. Of course, I haven’t watch FoxNews lately, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/87 "2011-12-01T01:06:03Z")
It’s best to pick your nose before you get to the table. It gets you out of all the hand holding. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/88 "2011-12-01T01:23:33Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > For an extremely opposite viewpoint, enter in my Aunt Rita. She had inlaws over for Thanksgiving years ago. The inlaws insisted on praying before the meal and Rita said “absolutely not”. When they ignored her request, Rita reached behind her and loaded the shot gun. Insanity isn’t a “viewpoint.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/89 "2011-12-01T01:29:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Insanity isn’t a “viewpoint.” But it is effective. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/90 "2011-12-01T01:36:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What I mean is that the non-Christian will be asked to be respectful of Christian traditions(bow the head, hold hands, be silent..), but I can’t recall seeing any posts calling for Christians to put aside their personal beliefs to participate in non-Christian rituals that might conflict with those selfsame beliefs. We are completely on the same page. I agree that some religions can be self-serving by not embracing other’s beliefs. For me Christianity stands out as one of the worst offenders because that is what I’m most exposed to. > [@Candyman74](#): > > This really is a bit bizarre to me. It seems so clear. > > Forcing a guest to engage in your rituals is bad hosting. > > Staying quiet while your host indulges their rituals is being a good guest. > > Forcing your rituals on your host is bad manners. > > This is all basic manners. Why is there even a debate? Are that many people so socially fucked up? The prayer thing is easy. It’s simple manners. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/91 "2011-12-01T03:32:42Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You’re in their house; you play by the their rules. Agree. Ive never been any kind of believer of any kind whatsoever, but I think it’s a politeness thing. When in Rome. Who gives a shit anyway if you’re just being polite? Just do what everyone else is doing and, if you feel slighted as an undergrad philo major might, remember you’re an adult and grab an extra slice of pie or another bottle of wine to stash in your pocket. Really. Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/92 "2011-12-01T03:54:27Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > \*though I generally don’t close my eyes. Yep, this is what I do exactly–I look around for other folks with their eyes open. ---
**Author:** ![ballardfam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@ballardfam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ballardfam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/93 "2011-12-01T04:03:23Z")
Thank your stars it was only grace. The first xmas I spent with my husband’s family I had to sing “Happy Birthday” to baby jesus and then share in his birthday cake. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/94 "2011-12-01T04:13:21Z")
I’ve been ambushed this way at least twice. I ended up simply sitting perfectly still and letting my hosts do and say whatever they felt they needed to. This made them uncomfortable. But I had no foreknowledge of it whatever! If they’d warned me ahead of time, I’d have found some diplomatic way of letting them know that I was not willing to participate. In contrast, I was a gentile guest at a Passover dinner and ceremony once. That time, I knew what was going to happen. I was fully briefed in advance, and I was able to participate without feeling trapped or surprised. My hosts knew the terms of my disbelief, and it was not a problem for them at all; meanwhile, I had no need to make any reference to my disbelief. It was a very positive experience for all concerned. In another example, at Toastmasters’ Meetings, I always make sure to find out who is scheduled to lead the Pledge of Allegiance, and, when it comes my turn, to arrange for someone else to take over that duty for me. I won’t be caught out unprepared and have to decline the honor publicly: that would be embarrassing! So…give people a little heads-up, eh? That’s all that’s needed. (Also…the Passover dinner was delicious! Wow, was that great dining! Yum!) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/95 "2011-12-01T04:27:28Z")
I have no problem quietly maintaining the illusion and bowing my head/holding hands, what really gets on my nerves is when they expect you to SAY something. When I was little occasionally we had something where everyone would offer a little part of their own heartfelt prayer, luckily I haven’t encountered that since then. Nowadays my family often says the Lord’s Prayer, and my mom glares at me if I don’t say anything so I have to actually, literally pray. Luckily when my girlfriend came with me to visit my family everything was so hectic we didn’t have time for a formal meal, because it would have been really awkward, her not even knowing the Lord’s Prayer and all. Rituals that involve talking that are really short and sweet, i.e., itadakimasu, or just being required to say “amen” after everyone has been silent for a minute don’t bother me, just when you’re required by the host to go through some long spiel. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/96 "2011-12-01T04:30:01Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > It’s not that I can’t deal with standing still holding hands for a couple of minutes. That’s trivial (though slightly annoying). It’s the fact that I KNOW they wouldn’t respect a different religion’s beliefs the same way–they’d be offended if they were asked to join in some other religion’s ritual. It’s the double standard/hipocracy of it that gets under my skin, and is why I started the thread. Two different things are going on here. When you’re the guest, you sit quietly through the majority-religion prayer out of politeness and respect for the host. When you’re the host, you don’t lead an obscure-religion prayer because you might want to invite your guests back on a subsequent occasion. Yes, there IS a double standard. And that’s just the way it is. The First Amendment can’t do anything about the fact that people at private dinner tables react differently to the prayers of an all-but-established religion and those of what they’d regard as some weirdo religion. Hell, even in areas where the First Amendment should theoretically come into play, there’s often a double standard. As a Christian, I get my holiday of Christmas off automatically, but my Jewish relatives have to burn a day of annual leave on Yom Kippur. That’s a double standard, it’s not fair, but there’s a limit to what you can do about it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/97 "2011-12-01T04:38:17Z")
> [@ballardfam](#): > > Thank your stars it was only grace. The first xmas I spent with my husband’s family I had to sing “Happy Birthday” to baby jesus and then share in his birthday cake. Hey, what was so bad about that? Singing “happy birthday, dear Jesus” doesn’t in any way imply worship, unless we’re all polytheists who regard everyone whose birthday we’ve helped celebrate as gods. Unless it bothers you to be singing “happy birthday” to someone you believe might be altogether fictional, but even then, I’m not seeing the problem. If a friend threw a birthday bash for Frodo and Bilbo Baggins, I’d sing along. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/98 "2011-12-01T05:01:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Hey, what was so bad about that? Singing “happy birthday, dear Jesus” doesn’t in any way imply worship, unless we’re all polytheists who regard everyone whose birthday we’ve helped celebrate as gods. > > Unless it bothers you to be singing “happy birthday” to someone you believe might be altogether fictional, but even then, I’m not seeing the problem. If a friend threw a birthday bash for Frodo and Bilbo Baggins, I’d sing along. I dunno; singing “Happy Birthday Jesus” would send me running the other way. Not because I would be offended, but because these people are nutbars. Seriously, what design does Jesus get on his birthday cake? Or is there no room what with the 2011 candles? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/99 "2011-12-01T05:17:15Z")
Well, on the plus side, you get cake. Can’t complain about that. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/100 "2011-12-01T05:41:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, on the plus side, you get cake. Can’t complain about that. Probably tastes like guilt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=6)