# Is it rude to expect your guests to pray with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558 "2011-11-30T15:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/121 "2011-12-01T19:20:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t believe in Santa, but if a five year old asks me about him, I always play along. Especially in their house. So you’re saying that Christians are like five-year-olds? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/122 "2011-12-01T19:23:10Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So you’re saying that Christians are like five-year-olds? five year old nose pickers ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/123 "2011-12-01T20:12:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t see anything wrong with sitting quietly while others pray. And holding hands doesn’t particularly bother me, but I could see some people finding this a little too personal and participatory. One of the ritual things we do after prayer is all wash our hands. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stendhal\_Syndrome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@Stendhal\_Syndrome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stendhal_Syndrome)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/124 "2011-12-01T20:29:21Z")
A little side note: Our 9 year old daughter came home a few days ago and told us that a parent had “made her” say grace in the school cafeteria. It’s a parent she doesn’t know and the lady was with her son while he ate breakfast in the cafeteria at the same table as our daughter. We are not religious and we don’t pray before meals but my daughter said she just said something along the lines of “thank you for this meal” because this lady was staring at her until she said something. She goes to a public school here in CA and I was angry enough to make a big deal out of it and email the principal and her teacher about it, but I just let it go. On the other hand, if I am at someone’s home and they pray and hold hands before each meal, I would politely close my eyes and stay quiet to be respectful. I normally don’t close my eyes and I just say “amen” at the end with everyone (don’t know why). However, it would irritate me if they asked me or my family do it their way. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/125 "2011-12-01T21:35:22Z")
I agree with the majority–it’s best just to stay quiet and let them get on with it. No need to participate if you don’t share the beliefs, but also no need to disrupt things by making your opinions known. I get to deal with this every year at Thanksgiving–the spouse’s side of the family is very Christian, and in the last two or three years they’ve moved from saying Grace before the meal to a full-boat (albeit short) church ceremony before the meal, complete with at least one song, a responsive reading, and a long prayer/mini-sermon. It’s kind of annoying since I’m not religious, but I just sit there and listen (I don’t sing or join in the responsive reading, nor do I close my eyes during the prayer). So far nobody’s given me any flak about it. They’re a nice bunch and if they’re judgmental about the fact that their son is married to a heathen, they haven’t said anything about it to me (or to him, unless he’s keeping it from me.) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/126 "2011-12-01T22:28:12Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So you’re saying that Christians are like five-year-olds? Only in the sense that they both believe in mythical beings, and it is rude to poke holes in that mythology in their own house. Five year olds get a little more comsideration because they are not expected to know better. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/127 "2011-12-02T01:49:33Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Why would believers want non-believers to pretend to pray? Mostly, I doubt they even think about it; they just assume that everybody assembled for dinner must be of their tribe, sharing their beliefs. The reason that declining to take part in the prayer frequently causes such consternation isn’t that they’re bothered by your rudeness (if it is that) so much as they’re upset to find that an outsider, someone not of their tribe, is in their midst, dining at their table. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/128 "2011-12-02T02:04:32Z")
I don’t think it’s so much rude as clueless. Not only do the non-religious understandably feel uncomfortable when expected to participate, not all of us who _are_ believers are okay with public prayers, either; for example I pray daily, but not out loud or in the presence of others because I feel prayer is meant to be private (see also - the book of Matthew). There’s nothing wrong with them praying or even inviting others to do so, but to simply expect that people will shows a lack of concern for other viewpoints and/or even not having an awareness of them. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/129 "2011-12-02T02:08:22Z")
I can understand why people decline to participate, but I’m not sure I get why anyone takes offense, or makes an obvious show of avoiding the ritual. Before traveling, most people will consult a travel guide, Travel Channel blogs, or ask someone experienced what customs to expect, and how to fit in, or at least how not to cause offense. Without ever having visiting, I can name several foreign customs off the top of my head, and I bet most posters in this thread, too. It seems odd to me that we would respect foreign cultural customs and habits, but not those in our backyard. I think nothing of bowing my head and closing my eyes, and I can either listen or blank out during a recitation, but it doesn’t cost me a thing to play along for a few seconds. I’ve been the target of a couple prayers, too, to the point of making me very uncomfortable: “Dear Lord, please turn the hearts of those who don’t belong to your precious house of worship” and “God, please forgive those present who are not joined in your blessed eyes”. An eye roller for sure, and the King James Biblespeak almost cracked me up, but my only recourse would be to stomp out indignantly and miss some terrific food and the fellowship of everyone at the table who didn’t publicly damn me. If believers come to my house for dinner, it never occurs to me to pray or offer a moment of silence for prayer. If believers sneak in a prayer before grabbing a biscuit, fine by me. With the rare exception of the passive aggressive power play I described earlier, a prayer doesn’t appear on my radar as peculiar, or rude, or anything other than a cultural custom deserving of respect. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/130 "2011-12-02T02:18:14Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > For an extremely opposite viewpoint, enter in my Aunt Rita. She had inlaws over for Thanksgiving years ago. The inlaws insisted on praying before the meal and Rita said “absolutely not”. When they ignored her request, Rita reached behind her and loaded the shot gun. The family went outside, prayed before the meal, and came back in. You don’t mess with Rita. > > I’m an atheist and I’ve been at meals where everyone bows their heads to pray and meals where my guests want to pray at my house. I’ve got a live and let live attitude. If someone insists that I join in the prayer, I will excuse myself. If that’s not acceptable, and how rude of a host to do that to a guest, I will choose to either not eat or leave. Can I adopt Aunt Rita? I could use an ally at the next family Passover seder. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/131 "2011-12-02T02:22:05Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > \I refuse to bow my head or close my eyes on general principle, That _is_ rude and disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/132 "2011-12-02T02:31:23Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > That _is_ rude and disrespectful. \*\*CitizenPained, \*\* I just read another thread that Dogzilla posted in, and I can’t blame her for refusing to support any religious institution or custom. In fact, I wish I had an apology big enough for any and every time the issue of religion invades her space. I wish I could apologize for human behavior in general, but all I can offer is my utmost respect for any decision she makes regarding religion. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/133 "2011-12-02T03:35:34Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > I agree with the majority–it’s best just to stay quiet and let them get on with it. No need to participate if you don’t share the beliefs, but also no need to disrupt things by making your opinions known. …but that isn’t the question being asked in the thread. That you should play along has been the premise for the entire thread. The question is, is the behavior rude? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/134 "2011-12-02T03:39:56Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > …but that isn’t the question being asked in the thread. That you should play along has been the premise for the entire thread. The question is, is the behavior rude? No. Sitting quietly with a slightly bemused expression is not rude. Reading a book on your Palm Pilot is rude. Making a call on your cell phone is rude. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/135 "2011-12-02T03:46:58Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > …but that isn’t the question being asked in the thread. That you should play along has been the premise for the entire thread. The question is, is the behavior rude? Ah, shoot **OpalCat** , I didn’t answer that question, either. Yeah, it’s presumptuous, and maybe a little self-serving if prayer before a meal isn’t a daily ritual, but one trotted out for holiday show. Ive mostly seen the holiday prayer, and only rarely witnessed the fast food prayer. But if praying before each meal is truly that person’s daily ritual, I think the answer is no, it isn’t rude. When in Rome and stuff. I worked for years with a Muslim woman who retreated to the bathroom stall to chant a couple of her 5 daily prayers, and I always wished she could do the same in a breakroom or cafeteria without causing a ruckus. She shouldn’t have been confined to a filthy bathroom stall for that ritual, and I would have gladly made room and stood quietly and respectfully by if she’d prostrated her lanky self right out on the carpet. Of course, it’s unlikely she would have expected me to stretch out in an Eastern direction alongside her… but I’d have helped her up for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/136 "2011-12-02T04:03:24Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Because in the Christian grace, it’s being assumed that you actually do believe, rather than just going through the motions to be polite, and in the Jewish Passover, you are taking the role of a stranger being instructed. In fact, in general, the Christians are supposed to try to convert you, and the Jews are supposed to try to dissuade you from being converted (at least as I understand it). Also, if you go to someone’s Passover Seder and get offended at the religious content, you are a moron. The religious content is the primary purpose of the occasion. Also, purely on the Jewish/Christian issue, I was raised Jewish (of the pretty ultra-reform variety), and offhand I can’t think of much in the way of content in any Jewish prayer that would conceivably offend any regular practicing Christian. Am I missing something? I guess someone could get annoyed if prayers were in Hebrew with no translation… ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/137 "2011-12-02T04:17:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Praying to Mother Earth/alternate deity/mankind who managed to bring forth food on the table without help from imaginary gods. Could you deny your deity just to respect your host? As I recall the First Commandment, it says “You shall have no other gods\*\*\* before Me\*\*\*”…it doesn’t say anywhere that they don’t exist. Who am I to say that Mother Earth wasn’t directly responsible for providing the bounty set before me? I don’t think it denies my deity in the least to sit quietly while my host says a prayer to whatever god or gods they believe in, gives thanks to the man and women who provided our food, thanks the animals who gave their lives so that we could eat, or whatever ritual it is that they observe before a meal. As many others have said, it’s really just a matter of common courtesy. Ask any six-year-old, and odds are they’ll know exactly how you should behave, because their kindergarten teacher will have taught them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/138 "2011-12-02T09:03:02Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Ok, I agree that is something to get worked up over. That actually happened to your daughter?And there was a party? Do you live in tribal Africa? I live in South Africa, but there’s a large Somali community here. A Somali acquaintance invited a bunch of us to his daughter’s 10th birthday party, I was all 😕 “Why invite a bunch of work acquaintances to _that_”, someone else more experienced with Somalis explained that this would be her post-circumcision “She’s a real woman now” thing, I was :eek: “No fucking way”, I confronted the dude as to whether this was, in fact, the case, he was all 😉 “we just nick it, honest, this isn’t the home country”, I was :mad: “No shit, Sherlock - BTW, you say this is happening Saturday? I’m calling the cops if you don’t stop it” He was all “cultural heritage, bitch” :smack: So I called the cops, and they did… …absolutely nothing ☹ Well, no, they hauled the guy and his wife in, but only _afterwards_, and they let him go again after an hour or so. Apparently neither his wife nor his kid would lay a complaint, so their hands were pretty much tied, CPS being what it is in this country. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/139 "2011-12-02T10:04:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did I say anything about making a big production? “Leave the room” isn’t that. Let me preface this - I am not religious, I do not pray, I do not expect others to participate in any ritual I may have going BUT… If I have guests around, whether it be family or otherwise, dinner ain’t starting until and unless EVERYONE is seated, and in such a manner that they are ready to eat. If I were to have any pre dinner rituals, I would see them as part of the meal, so the very act of somebody not being there would be a production in and of itself of the order - OI, why isn’t Dibble here? Should we wait for him or not? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558/140 "2011-12-02T10:10:40Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Ah, shoot **OpalCat** , I didn’t answer that question, either. Yeah, it’s presumptuous, and maybe a little self-serving if prayer before a meal isn’t a daily ritual, but one trotted out for holiday show. Ive mostly seen the holiday prayer, and only rarely witnessed the fast food prayer. > > But if praying before each meal is truly that person’s daily ritual, I think the answer is no, it isn’t rude. When in Rome and stuff. I worked for years with a Muslim woman who retreated to the bathroom stall to chant a couple of her 5 daily prayers, and I always wished she could do the same in a breakroom or cafeteria without causing a ruckus. She shouldn’t have been confined to a filthy bathroom stall for that ritual, and I would have gladly made room and stood quietly and respectfully by if she’d prostrated her lanky self right out on the carpet. Of course, it’s unlikely she would have expected me to stretch out in an Eastern direction alongside her… but I’d have helped her up for sure. I don’t think “praying in public” would quite have been in line with the tenets…not exactly sure though and I stand to be corrected [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-rude-to-expect-your-guests-to-pray-with-you/604558.md?page=8)