Is it safe for people to eat dog or cat food?

*******@frenchbulldog.org
To Carol Gravestock-Taylor:

Hi! I’d like to post the article that you wrote called “Dog Eat Dog,” about what’s in dog food, on our message board, but the moderator says that I need your permission, because it’s copyrighted material.

So?

Thank you.

[Notthemama]
********@juno.com
The original message was received at Mon, 8 May 2000 18:39:34 -0400 (EDT)
from ********@juno.com

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http://vetmedicine.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.api4animals.org/Petfood.htm

Check out this link to a Veterinary site concerning pet foods.

Well, we’ll try it this way.

http://www.api4animals.org/Petfood.htm

An interesting link but I saw nothing at all that I would consider unsafe. I’d be willing to bet that watching Chicken McNuggets being made isn’t very savory either. Any food, human or pet, can be contaminated during manufacture or storage but that doesn’t mean I’m going to quit eating Bran Buds. I still insist its safe for humans on an occasional basis. Imagine all the people that can’t read English that buy and consume Mighty Dog Meatballs n Gravy just because of the picture on the label. If it really was dangerous, somebody would have sued by now.

Do you really think that happens, illiterate people eat dog food because of the picture? Wouldn’t the fact that pet food and human food are typically on opposite ends of the store make that a rarity? I would not think if you see bags of Alpo and other brands of kibble, various chew toys, leashes, etc, and then a can of meat, you’re going to think “Hmmm, how did this sirloin get in the pets’ section?”

Here, in part, are the FDA’s standards for pet food. (No way am I going to try to quote the whole thing this time! :smiley: )

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/fda/infores/consumer/market.htm

And then there’s an address and phone number.

So, then I finally finished reading the Animal Protection Institute report that Sentinel gave a link to. Here it is again, so you don’t have to scroll back up

Sentinel, I would like to thank you for posting that. It was a much more realistic and sensible report on what’s really in pet food, much better than Ms. Gravestock-Taylor’s article.

If you all don’t want to wade through the entire thing, I will summarize by saying that it’s a well-researched and fairly well-balanced report on what’s in pet food. However, if you’ve spent any time at all kicking around this planet, it won’t tell you anything you didn’t already know, from some TIME magazine-style article. So, pet food has guts, additives, odd things like feather meal, and cereal in it. So what else is knew? ::: shrug :::

The Animal Protection Institute as an organization doesn’t seem to be any more wild-eyed than any other animal rights group. I would have to quibble with a couple of things on their home page (“puppy beaten to death in Sedona–letters needed!” I ran it through snopes and didn’t come up with anything.) They have also taken a Very Firm Stand against transplanting animal organs into humans, which made me go, “…huh?”

At the end of the article, I was ready for a plug for their books, but actually all they want us to do is stop feeding commercial pet food altogether–make your own pet food from scratch. And while they do list a bibliography, they include a disclaimer to the effect that “we don’t sell these books–please see your local bookseller.”

So, this is all very interesting, but I still don’t know if I’ve had my OP answered. Sure, pet food might be non-nutritious for humans, and it’s definitely yucky to think about what’s in it, but is it SAFE? Evidently according to the FDA, it’s sterilized at some point, so I’m assuming that the Low Acid Canning Process would take care of any “mad cow disease” organisms.

But I’m also thinking in terms of heavy metals like mercury, hormones and other drugs that the animals that were ground up have been fed, pesticide residues, etc. The FDA just says, “…contain no harmful or deleterious substances.” Is that good enough? Somehow I don’t think the FDA is quite as vigilant when it comes to pet food, as compared to how it is with people food. What do the Teeming Millions think? We’ve had a lot of anecdotal evidence so far in this thread of people who occasionally eat pet food with no ill effects. Does anybody know someone who eats it regularly? Frankly, I always thought those stories about elderly people or ignorant [insert name of ethnic group here] who eat dog or cat food regularly because it’s so cheap were just Urban Myths.

A little note here.

The ‘rendering’ process of pet foods and later, further cooking, will remove most, if not all, dangerous bacteria but, as we have discovered with human quality foods, certain hormones used to fatten food animals and various medications, like antibiotics and steroids, are not destroyed.

There were several articles some time back – and, no I cannot give you the links or publications – where the noticeable early ‘maturing’ of young girls in school in comparison with something like the 60s, was being correlated with the then not very old practice of injecting female hormones into meat animals to make them fatten up faster. It has already been established that massive amounts of antibiotics given to such animals to prevent disease is a large contributor to the increasing human immunity to such medications.

Not necessarily illiterate people, just those not literate in English. I shop sometimes in Oriental food stores and I buy things because of the picture on the label just because it looks interesting. I could easily buy Korean dog food and eat it without knowing any better.

Hi everyone - bet you all thought that I’d crapped out and gone home, huh? Actually, I’ve been doing research - I thought that if I were going to contradict Sentinel I had better be sure of my facts. I’m not finished - I’m learning an awful lot about pet food - but thought I would post what I’ve learned so far. I can’t really post links because I gathered all of this from over 100 websites, some of them very large with the relevant information buried in the midst of a bunch of other stuff. However, a couple of links that might be helpful and/or interesting:

Good Dog Magazine

AnimalNet Archives Scroll down to the article “Information For Consumers Food and Drug Administration For Veterinary Medicine: Interpreting Pet Food Labels” and the following article below it “Interpreting Pet Food Labels - special use foods.”

It has been extremely difficult to find information that did not come from a biased source and was therefore suspect. I’ve been doing my best to discern what truth there is mixed in with the propaganda and double-talk from all sides of the pet food issue - there doesn’t seem to be anyone involved who doesn’t have a personal agenda.

So far, the focus of my research has been the claim that commercial pet food contains dead cats and dogs. The sad news is that yes, some pet foods can, and possibly do, contain dead pets. (My own veterinarian is appalled - he thought the claim was ridiculous also.)

First of all, Canada apparently has a much bigger problem than the United States, unless new laws have been passed since the material I read was posted (some of it was several years old and mentioned that there was pressure on to make some changes). The U.S. has the AAFCO to make regulations and provide guidelines, and the AAFCO works in conjuction with the FDA and the USDA to write, recommend, and enforce laws and guidelines. From what I’ve read, pretty much ‘anything goes’ as far as pet food manufacturing is concerned in Canada and much of the rest of the world.

Okay, there is no federal law against using dead dogs and cats in pet food. The AAFCO does require accurate labeling - if the label says ‘chicken by-products’ then it had better be chicken in that vat if the government inspectors test it. However, there is a category called ‘meat by-products’ or ‘meat meal’ that satisfies the labeling requirement and still includes just about anything that used to live and breath.

Many states and/or local governments prohibit the sale of dead/euthanized dogs and cats from veterinary clinics and animal shelters to rendering plants (more on that later). However, some places DO allow this because it is otherwise almost impossible to dispose of the bodies - apparently Los Angeles ships thousands of euthanized animals to an out-of-state rendering plant, and San Francisco also apparently sells their ‘pound produce’ to rendering plants.

Rendering plants reduce meat, meat by-products, and various and assorted dead animals to a homogenous ‘glop’ by cooking it down in huge vats, separating off the fat, etc., grinding the remains, and usually drying this into a grainy powder similar to boullion powder. The result is sold for use in livestock and pet food, fertilizer, etc.

Many rendering plants will not accept dogs and cats; most of the ones that do render the ‘acceptable’ meat - beef, chicken, etc. - separately from the ‘roadkill/pound produce’ meat and produce separate products. The acceptable meat is sold to pet and livestock food manufacturers, while the ‘unacceptable’ meat is used to produce bone meal and meat meal that is used for fertilizers or to make fish food, earthworm food, and such. Some rendering plants mix the whole kit and kaboodle together and sell it to whoever wants to buy it - there is no law against the sell of, or use of, either this ‘mixed’ product or the ‘unacceptable’ product in pet or livestock food.

(And now I’m going to really disgust everyone.)

Most pet food manufacturers make at least SOME effort to make sure that there product doesn’t contain dogs and cats. Livestock food manufacturers generally don’t care - most of the beef, chicken, pork, and mutton on the supermarket shelves came from animals that were fed high-protein feeds containing ‘meat meal’ - made from cattle, chicken, hogs, sheep, cats, dogs, deer, raccoons, horses, circus elephants - you name it, if it’s meat and it’s dead, it’s probably in there. (I think the proper, legal description is “mammalian food source” - at least that excludes lizards and snakes, although it does include rats!)

And I think I mentioned something earlier about separating the fat from the rest of the ‘glop’? Guess what a major market for this is?

Cosmetics.

Okay, back to the pet food manufacturers. Some of the high quality, premium brand foods obtain their meat products directly from the slaughter houses and render it themselves, or buy them from a reliable, premium supplier. For example, Tyson’s just built a new chicken-rendering plant a few miles from my house. The chicken parts considered ‘unfit’ for human consumption - feet, heads, necks, guts, etc. - from Tyson plants in this and the surrounding states is shipped here, where it is rendered and sold to pet food companies. Because of concerns that lamb products could possibly infect pets with scrapie (a viral encephalitis of sheep), IAMS has ranches in New Zealand and Australia where they raise their own scrapie-free sheep to provide the lamb for their lamb-and-rice products.

When high-quality pet food companies DO buy from rendering plants, they patronize reliable, respectable companies. They also require affidavits from the owners/officers of these companies stating that none of the product supplied to the pet food company contains dogs and cats. Both the pet food companies and the rendering plants have a lot to lose by violating this agreement - one employee with a big mouth or a grudge could put everyone out of business.

However, the president of a rendering plant in California stated that Ralston-Purina did, unknowingly, include cat and dog meat in their pet food because the rendering plant, for various reasons, shipped them the ‘mixed’ product instead of the ‘acceptable’ product that was supposedly shipped. Another rendering plant in, I think, New Jersey, said that a pet food manufacturer had bought their ‘mixed’ product from them on several occasions.

The price of the food and the reputation of the company should tell you a lot about their source for meat products. No company comparable with IAMS, Eukanuba, or Science Diet is going to risk using an ‘unacceptable’ product - “Kozy Kitten” and “Happy Pet” don’t have a reputation to worry about. A can of Science Diet food may cost $2.00 because they use a high-quality (more expensive) meat source, conduct feeding trials, do laboratory testing of random food samples from each batch, and employ strict sanitation methods. How do you think “Kozy Kitten” manages to sell the same size can of food for $0.33?

I’ll stop this here and post some more later about comparisons between human and pet food, reading labels, nutrition, etc.

I had an uncle that ate dog food for about two years. Sadly he was run over by a truck when he stopped in the middle of the road to lick his balls.

tatertot, this must be what you heard about: Canadians Issue Warning about Dog Treats

Rendering plant fats and cosmetics: http://www.ascendingwings.com/animals.htm

NTM, from what I’ve read so far (at least a thousand pages!), while the contents of pet foods might be unsavory to us human types, there is probably no more risk of disease and/or poisoning than from eating foods processed for humans. The cooking process destroys disease-causing organisms, and the heavy metals, pesticides, etc. that you are concerned about are just as toxic to pets as they are to humans. However, apparently the pet food industry is not well regulated or well inspected, so there is always room for concern.

Unless you are planning on making pet food a substantial part of your diet, hormones and/or drugs are more of a concern in livestock specifically raised for human consumption. Feedlot cattle often receive hormonal implants to increase weight gain, and livestock feeds may not only contain hormonal supplements but also antibiotics (especially tetracycline) that may be passed on to the consumer in minute quantities. I think the jury is still out on whether or not this is harmful to humans - anyway, pet food is not likely to contain these in much higher quantities than meat meant for human consumption.

A lot of the complaints I saw about both human and pet food were really a matter of opinion more than scientific fact. Many of the accusations of unsafe/unhealthy ingredients have not been substantiated by research (nor have they been entirely dismissed). I got the impression that many people want their pet food to exceed the quality/safety standards for human food. For example, I saw many references to the ‘unsafe/unhealthy’ use of BHA and BHT as preservatives in pet food, yet I am looking at the ingredients label of Nabisco Harvest Mornings Instant Multigrain Hot Cereal (Banana Nut Bread flavor) and it clearly says “BHT (to preserve freshness)”. Hmm, so does this box of Kellogg’s Raisin Bran Crunch cereal. It’s okay in my breakfast, but not in my dog food? Something’s not right!

Here are some more FDA regulations from this site: FDA Regs

Animal Products

“Feeds, pet foods, color and food additives, drugs, and devices, intended for animals are generally subjected to the same requirements of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act as similar products for human use. the Act defines food and drugs as articles intended “for man and animals”.”

Animal and Pet Foods

"As with human food, animal feeds and pet food may not be adulterated or misbranded. Among other things, animals feeds may not contain any:

  1. poisonous or deleterious substances or residues of pesticides in excess of established tolerances.

  2. food or color additives which are unsafe.

  3. filthy, putrid, or decomposed material."

Food Additives

“Food additives are illegal unless they are the subject of prior approval (sanction) or a regulation for their safe use . . . . Food additives that have been found to induce cancer, or whose metabolites have been found to induce cancer, may be used in feed for food-producing animals if no harm comes to the animal and there is no residue of the substance or its metabolites in edible tissues reaching the consumer(Sec. 409©(3)(A)). Such substances may not be added to other animal or pet foods.”

I interpret that last part about cancer-causing substances to mean that if eating it for 10 years may cause cancer, and it’s being fed to a feedlot steer who is going to the slaughterhouse at age 2, there is nothing wrong with adding it to the feed as long as the accumulation in the tissues is low enough to not endanger the consumer.

A lot of the anti-commercial pet food hype seems to arise not from actual nutritional/health issues, but from our own cultural bias toward ‘unfit’ foods. If you are a dog or cat, there is nothing wrong with chicken guts - they’re right tasty. But because we find them disgusting, we don’t want to feed them to our pets!

I agree that the API site is pretty good - they have a lot of interesting material there.

And the complaint that pet food labels are less than clear? My bag of Eukanuba Kitten Food seems pretty clear, but I sure would like to know what “texturized vegetable protein” and “resinous glaze” are (both on human food labels), and just what exactly constitutes “spices”, “natural flavorings”, and “artificial flavorings”. Strangely enough, my kitten food doesn’t contain any artificial coloring or flavoring, but my Pop Tarts do. Maybe we should petition for human food to meet the high standards set by come of the pet food companies!

While I would not worry about getting mad cow disease from pet food, what causes mad cow is not an organism. Mad cow disease is caused by a prion, which is a normal protein with an abnormal shape. I think any process that would distroy the prion would also distroy all proteins.

I came across a lot of material about ‘mad cow disease’ while researching pet food, DrMatrix. There seems to be doubt in some quarters as to whether prions are actually the culprit. Do you know if this has been definitely confirmed, or if it is still in the ‘prevalent theory’ category?

I also saw several mentions of the difficulty of destroying prions - it appears that even incineration may not be sufficient.

Actually, everything I read scared the heck out of me. But at least it seems that you would be at no greater risk of being exposed by eating pet food than by eating human food from the supermarket. Come to think of it, since IAMS is supposed to be raising their own scrapie-free sheep for their lamb-based pet foods, that might be the safest food in the grocery store!

Golly, Coosa, you scare me sometimes! You bucking for a promotion, or what? :smiley:

Seriously, thanks for doing all that reading for me. I wasn’t expecting anything at all like that when I started this thread; I was expecting maybe a few jokes about doggie-burgers and old people buying cat food at the store.

Now all I have to do is wait for the front porch group to reassemble itself, so I can drop my (your) pearls of wisdom into the conversation.

Thanks again. :slight_smile:

Actually, NTM, your rather innocent little question led to much bigger things - ain’t that the way it always works? When I started doing a little research, I started finding out a lot of disturbing things about both the pet food and human food industry. I’ve been reassured that I am probably feeding my cats one of the best (if not THE best) cat foods available. I’m a lot more careful about reading labels and taking them at face value than I was before. AND I’ve passed what I’ve learned on to a lot of my friends and associates.

So between your posts, Sentinel’s posts, and a desire to find out the truth, I’ve learned a lot about something that I really should have investigated more thoroughly to start with.

Isn’t this the way the SDMB is supposed to work? I think I lost about 5 pounds of ignorance!

What little I have read about mad cow disease said that prions are responsible. I have not read much on the subject and I would not presume to say what the prevailing theory is.

What other candidates are considered?

This is starting to ding the common-sense-o-meter. If true, the prions are just buried out there in England in corpses to infect future generations. Sounds just a bit X-Filish but I need to research some more.

DrMatrix and Doctordec, I’d be interested in reading anything you come across that you think is good information. I’ll have to see if I can find the websites again, but there were two that I recall pretty clearly. One of them is discussing the need to build a new incinerator at Cornell for the veterinary school. Apparently there was some concern about whether or not the current incinerator might actually be spreading disease-causing organisms through its emissions, and the possibility that prions might not be completely destroyed before being ventilated or that some might survive inside the incinerator was mentioned.

The other was some sort of general science site that said that prions were most likely incidental to the disease, and the culprit was more likely to be an unidentified virus. I’ll see if I can re-locate these websites for you.

Several of the sites I read said that ‘mad-cow disease’ only appeared after renderers (in the UK) stopped using a particular compound to disinfect/denature meat because the substance was flammable, and of course the temperatures reached during rendering were meant to not destroy the proteins.

I’ll also have to go back and read some material that I only skimmed over - there are several mentions of ‘meat on the bone’ being a particular problem, but I didn’t delve into that topic.

And everything I read may be inaccurate, as ‘mad-cow disease’ was rather incidental to the focus of my research at the time, and I just sort of picked up the information while looking for other stuff. I haven’t taken the time to double check the information for accuracy yet.

If I can find those links and any others, I’ll be glad to post them so that you can give me some straight answers. My knowledge of prions is limited to what is in my 3 year old biology texts, and I fear they are sadly out of date on this matter.