# Is it Safe to Have Sixpack Abs? Healthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145 "2013-10-13T16:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/201 "2013-10-19T08:00:15Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Defining “okay” to mean “reasonable” in this instance, I’d say it’s reasonable to be concerned about a loved one engaging in an activity under at least one of two conditions. > > **Condition one** : the activity is clearly having a negative effect on their work or personal relationships. They’re at risk of losing their job, significant other, or alienating their family by continuing the activity. Someone has wine with dinner - no problem. They get fired or dumped because they’re showing up drunk everywhere - problem. > > **Condition two** : the activity is demonstrably dangerous even when the person is intelligent, mentally stable, and responsible. “Hey, brazil84, I’m off to shoot heroin with 20 people and we’ve only got the one needle, but no worries - I’ll wipe it off with a napkin when it’s my turn to shoot up. You still going to church next Sunday? Cool, I’ll see you then!” Ok, so if you suspect that the family member is doing something harmful, or even just less healthy than other options, but you don’t know or have clear evidence, then it is unreasonable to be concerned or even to ask other people about the healthiness of the conduct? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/202 "2013-10-19T10:22:50Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so if you suspect that the family member is doing something harmful, or even just less healthy than other options, but you don’t know or have clear evidence, then it is unreasonable to be concerned or even to ask other people about the healthiness of the conduct? This, as much as any of your posts in this thread, indicates that you’re not at all concerned about your relative but that you simply wish to be “right” and “win” the argument. You should have been clear from the onset that this was all about you. As such, I consider all your “questions” asked and answered. Oh, and once more, with feeling… > [@brazil84](#): > > This exchange is concluded. Goodbye. Classic. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/203 "2013-10-19T10:40:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I don’t think so. It is vanity to do it in order to brag about it. To be able to check it off your own bucket list? I would not classify that as vanity even if it is some degree of self-pride. > > That “fit mom” \*\*Beowulff \*\*linked to, posting herself looking buff and the line “What’s your excuse?” That strikes me as vanity and obnoxious. Someone posting a picture of himself with his shirt off to brag about his flat belly Putin style? Also strikes me as mock-worthy. > > OTOH that “fit mom” saying, as she does in the article, that if I can get and stay fit anyone can, aint bad … better if she focused less on the looks of it than the activity of it though. Context is important. FitMom in her spandex was showing off what hard work and dedication to fitness can accomplish. If she walks around all day dressed like that - grocery store, picking up the kids from school, going to the office, etc… - then I can get behind your gripe. But she was in a news article about fitness. How else did you expect her to be dressed? Let me ask you this… what’s worse, working hard and getting fit and posing for a pic to show off you abs, or not working hard, not being fit and hiding behind an oversized sweatshirt and sweatpants while running errands? I realize that vanity and pride are considered a sin, but isn’t slothfullness a sin as well? What about envy? I am by no means accusing you of any of the above. But I am suggesting that judgements are made by both sides of the spectrum. Sometimes those judgements are misplaced or motivated by things having nothing to do with the person being judged. Would you agree? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/204 "2013-10-19T11:59:47Z")
She had posted it on her FaceBook and it went viral which triggered the news article. Just for clarification. I don’t care much about sins, just commenting on obnoxiousness. Especially in the context that it was brought up, how crazy it is that anyone commented on her post other than positively when all she was doing was daring to display the result of her hard work and dedication. But I acknowledge your point as valid. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/205 "2013-10-19T12:55:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > She had posted it on her FaceBook and it went viral which triggered the news article. Just for clarification. I don’t care much about sins, just commenting on obnoxiousness. Especially in the context that it was brought up, how crazy it is that anyone commented on her post other than positively when all she was doing was daring to display the result of her hard work and dedication. > > But I acknowledge your point as valid. It was an advertisement, what is obnoxious about that? Kang is a business owner and writes a fitness blog in which she shares her history of struggles with her weight including photos which show her evolution from a chubby kid to fit mom. She claims previous bouts with bulimia, and a quick scroll down her page will show her overweight as an adult, too. If she plugged her blog with her before/overweight photos I suppose you’d find that less obnoxious but it wouldn’t show good business sense now would it?[Fitness - Maria Kang](http://www.mariakang.com/category/fitness/) ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/206 "2013-10-19T13:20:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so if you suspect that the family member is doing something harmful, or even just less healthy than other options, but you don’t know or have clear evidence, then it is unreasonable to be concerned or even to ask other people about the healthiness of the conduct? To borrow from the analogy above: if a family member has a glass of wine with dinner, is it unreasonable to look into the effects of alcoholism and rehab options? I’m going to come down on the side of yes, it’s unreasonable. You don’t interfere (or gather intel with the intent to interfere) in an adult’s life unless you’ve got solid evidence that the behavior is having a significant negative impact. Not _potential_. Not _minor_. Not because you think you can live their lives for them better than you can. The bottom line here is that this family member has done nothing to harm himself yet, and probably never will (not a lot of 40-something male anorexics, you’ll be shocked to learn - likely because it involves giving up beer). You have a different opinion about a course of action, nothing more. To quote the philosophers Def Leppard: Let it rock. Let it roll. Let it go. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/207 "2013-10-19T14:07:41Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > To borrow from the analogy above: if a family member has a glass of wine with dinner, is it unreasonable to look into the effects of alcoholism and rehab options? I’m going to come down on the side of yes, it’s unreasonable. You don’t interfere (or gather intel with the intent to interfere) in an adult’s life unless you’ve got solid evidence that the behavior is having a significant negative impact. Not _potential_. Not _minor_. Not because you think you can live their lives for them better than you can. Ok, so in your view, if they drink 4 glasses of wine a night, but still make it to work every day, then it’s not even reasonable to ask others if it is unhealthy to drink like this. Right? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/208 "2013-10-19T14:11:03Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so in your view, if they drink 4 glasses of wine a night, but still make it to work every day, then it’s not even reasonable to ask others if it is unhealthy to drink like this. Right? Man, you are like a dog with a bone. At what point do you just give up and admit that your concern for your relative was overly paternal? I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you honestly had their best interests in mind. But, numerous posters have said that your concern was mis-placed. Just admit it an move on. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/209 "2013-10-19T14:14:58Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Man, you are like a dog with a bone. > > At what point do you just give up and admit that your concern for your relative was overly paternal? I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you honestly had their best interests in mind. But, numerous posters have said that your concern was mis-placed. Just admit it an move on. We’re talking about a slightly different issue. Other posters are claiming, in effect, that it was not reasonable for me to even ask here about the issue in the first place. That’s a pretty strong claim and I feel like challenging it. Where do you stand? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/210 "2013-10-19T14:35:20Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > We’re talking about a slightly different issue. Other posters are claiming, in effect, that it was not reasonable for me to even ask here about the issue in the first place. > > That’s a pretty strong claim and I feel like challenging it. Where do you stand? Well, I think your initial question was right on the border between absurd and ridiculous… If your relative had said that they wanted to get into the Guinness Book by becoming the thinnest (or fattest) person alive, I would agree that their mental health might need to be examined. But _abs_? It might be a difficult (and narcissistic) goal, but in the grand scheme of things it’s pretty benign. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/211 "2013-10-19T14:47:36Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, I think your initial question was right on the border between absurd and ridiculous… > If your relative had said that they wanted to get into the Guinness Book by becoming the thinnest (or fattest) person alive, I would agree that their mental health might need to be examined. But _abs_? It might be a difficult (and narcissistic) goal, but in the grand scheme of things it’s pretty benign. So benign that it’s ridiculous to even ask about it. Nevermind the fact that researchers have spent a lot of resources studying the relationship between body composition and mortality and found that men at the bottom end of the “healthy” BMI range have slightly higher mortality than those in the middle. It’s so obviously benign that it’s ridiculous to even ask the question. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/212 "2013-10-19T14:58:30Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So benign that it’s ridiculous to even ask about it. Nevermind the fact that researchers have spent a lot of resources studying the relationship between body composition and mortality and found that men at the bottom end of the “healthy” BMI range have slightly higher mortality than those in the middle. It’s so obviously benign that it’s ridiculous to even ask the question. > > :rolleyes: It’s pretty clear that you have some agenda. Perhaps you should educate yourself about BMI and exercise. A person who’s goals include getting six-pack abs is not going to do that just by staving themselves. They are going to need to do a lot of weight training which _increases_ BMI! My BMI is right at the top of the “normal” range - I’m borderline “obese,” and I have a 33" waist. Once a person drops their superfluous body fat, their BMI will increase with exercise. Oh, and BTW, BMI is just a handy guide to judging overall health risks - it falls down when trying to evaluate athletes. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/213 "2013-10-19T15:11:19Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It’s pretty clear that you have some agenda. > Perhaps you should educate yourself about BMI and exercise. A person who’s goals include getting six-pack abs is not going to do that just by staving themselves. They are going to need to do a lot of weight training which _increases_ BMI! My BMI is right at the top of the “normal” range - I’m borderline “obese,” and I have a 33" waist. Once a person drops their superfluous body fat, their BMI will increase with exercise. > > Oh, and BTW, BMI is just a handy guide to judging overall health risks - it falls down when trying to evaluate athletes. And fails to account for quality of life measures like mental and emotional health. The exercise required to maintain the lower end of the BMI range provides benefits beyond the cardio-vascular. Shouldn’t these benefits also be taken into account when considering a patient’s overall health? > **[Exercise for Mental Health](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1470658/)** “Aerobic exercises, including jogging, swimming, cycling, walking, gardening, and dancing, have been proved to reduce anxiety and depression.3 These improvements in mood are proposed to be caused by exercise-induced increase in blood circulation to the brain and by an influence on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis and, thus, on the physiologic reactivity to stress.3 This physiologic influence is probably mediated by the communication of the HPA axis with several regions of the brain, including the limbic system, which controls motivation and mood; the amygdala, which generates fear in response to stress; and the hippocampus, which plays an important part in memory formation as well as in mood and motivation.” ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/214 "2013-10-19T15:38:59Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > It’s pretty clear that you have some agenda. Quit trying to change the subject. The question is whether it’s ridiculous to even ask whether it’s relatively less healthy to be at a body fat level necessary to have six-pack abs. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you should educate yourself about BMI and exercise. A person who’s goals include getting six-pack abs is not going to do that just by staving themselves. They are going to need to do a lot of weight training which _increases_ BMI! My BMI is right at the top of the “normal” range - I’m borderline “obese,” and I have a 33" waist. Once a person drops their superfluous body fat, their BMI will increase with exercise. Please educate me. What is the optimal body fat percentage for health and longevity for middle-aged men? Please provide links to studies to support your position. Since it’s so obvious that my question is ridiculous, it should be very easy for you to provide this information. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/215 "2013-10-19T15:53:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Quit trying to change the subject. The question is whether it’s ridiculous to even ask whether it’s relatively less healthy to be at a body fat level necessary to have six-pack abs. > > Please educate me. > > What is the optimal body fat percentage for health and longevity for middle-aged men? > > Please provide links to studies to support your position. > > Since it’s so obvious that my question is ridiculous, it should be very easy for you to provide this information. > > Thank you. \*What is the optimal body fat percentage for health and longevity for middle-aged men? \* Nobody knows. This [site](http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-much-body-fat-is-healthy.html#b) gives a range of 10-25%. I suspect that even low-single-digit body fat levels for men don’t statistically significantly increase mortality risk. But, this really isn’t the issue. This issue is: you have already formed a conclusion, and you are desperately searching for cites to support it. When you relative announced his goals, you didn’t go out and do any research, did you? You simply leaped to the conclusion that what he was doing was unhealthy, and now you are trying to defend this (untenable) conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/216 "2013-10-19T16:06:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Quit trying to change the subject. The question is whether it’s ridiculous to even ask whether it’s relatively less healthy to be at a body fat level necessary to have six-pack abs. > > Please educate me. > > What is the optimal body fat percentage for health and longevity for middle-aged men? > > Please provide links to studies to support your position. > > Since it’s so obvious that my question is ridiculous, it should be very easy for you to provide this information. > > Thank you. The problem with such a study is tracking BF over the years. The gold standard test is hydrostatic weighing. You can’t just look at a chart. BF does not stay steady over a person’s lifetime even among athletes. It would be a rare person who maintains a fairly steady BF without exercise or a near obsessive devotion to diet/lifestyle. Separating out the effects of exercise from BF levels for longevity would be impossible. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/217 "2013-10-19T16:25:42Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Nobody knows. And yet it is so obvious that 10% body fat is just as healthy as 15% which is just as healthy as 20% that it’s “absurd” to even ask which is healthier. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > But, this really isn’t the issue. i.e. you realize that you are unable to defend your ridiculous claim so you want to change the subject. > [@](#): > > This issue is: you have already formed a conclusion, and you are desperately searching for cites to support it. When you relative announced his goals, you didn’t go out and do any research, did you? You simply leaped to the conclusion that what he was doing was unhealthy, and now you are trying to defend this (untenable) conclusion. Please quote me where I concluded that this individual’s conduct was unhealthy. Failing that, please admit that I stated no such conclusion and apologize. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/218 "2013-10-19T16:33:41Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > This exchange is concluded. Goodbye. Your lips say no, but your eyes say yes. ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/219 "2013-10-19T16:52:21Z")
The OP has added me to a very long list of ignored, so I’ll just throw this question out there. It looks as though some are leaning towards pushing the normal range up a bit for no other reason than mortality rates. But BMI isn’t an adequate measure of satisfaction, self-esteem, happiness, or quality of life, so we have no evidence that overweight people who live longer are happier or more productive. Just older. Is that the new aspiration? Not assessing risk factors associated with being underweight or overweight, but who lives the longest? (I know how to hyperlink, but I read a few posters reluctant to click links, so I’ll keep the addresses visible) CDC Researchers Find Lower Mortality Rates Among Overweight People: [CDC Researchers Find Lower Mortality Rates Among Overweight People](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/03/cdc-researchers-find-lower-mortality-rates-among-overweight-people.html) No Extra Death Risk Seen for Moderate Obesity: [PRIME® Continuing Medical Education](http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Obesity/36674) I guess it bears repeating that the thread experts and the OP find the pursuit of lower body fat for vanity’s sake to be worthy of scorn, but I’d argue that self-esteem and satisfaction with one’s appearance and accomplishments has an intrinsic value over and above vanity. But I don’t have a cite, so I suppose my opinion about feeling good about the way one looks is also worthy of scorn. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/220 "2013-10-19T16:54:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so in your view, if they drink 4 glasses of wine a night, but still make it to work every day, then it’s not even reasonable to ask others if it is unhealthy to drink like this. Right? In the absence of any other observations (drunken rants that frighten the SO and/or kids, driving while inebriated, evidence of drinking at work)? Yep. Researching someone else’s drinking habits when they look completely benign is a little something we like to call “looking for trouble.” So is researching someone else’s weight-loss plan. Bottom line, you’ve come across in this thread as less concerned about this relative and more interested in undermining him and sabotaging him, pretty much since the first post. Someone trying to support him who was concerned would be looking for how to help him achieve his goals safely. Your posts have been looking for talking points to stop him reaching his goal, or even starting towards it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145.md?page=12)