# Is it Safe to Have Sixpack Abs? Healthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145 "2013-10-13T16:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/61 "2013-10-14T16:45:24Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > According to you, I implied that this individual was “setting his expectations to high, and engaging in a process destructive to his health” > > But you were unable to point out where I had done so, since you simply made it up. And you have refused to admit what you did and apologize. > > I have no interest in an exchange where the other person insists on putting words in my mouth. > > This exchange is concluded. > > Bye. There hasn’t been an “exchange” since you started this thread looking to advance your agenda. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/62 "2013-10-14T16:54:06Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No. I wouldn’t use the term “on his case” to describe the first example. The second one makes no sense in this context, but is still advice concerning future action. Lol, so expressing concern to another person about his conduct does not count as being “on his case”? Even if it’s done repeatedly? Also, it sounds like you agree that telling someone to “stop acting single” counts as “advice” so that if the advisor asks any future questions about the person, it’s ok to remind him that he “doesn’t know what he’s talking about”? > [@](#): > > Wrong. Then please provide your definition of “advice.” TIA. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/63 "2013-10-14T16:57:24Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, so expressing concern to another person about his conduct does not count as being “on his case”? Even if it’s done repeatedly? > > Also, it sounds like you agree that telling someone to “stop acting single” counts as “advice” so that if the advisor asks any future questions about the person, it’s ok to remind him that he “doesn’t know what he’s talking about”? No, I’m saying you shouldn’t give out advice on subjects you admittedly don’t understand. You clearly don’t understand this one. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/64 "2013-10-14T17:06:28Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No, I’m saying you shouldn’t give out advice on subjects you admittedly don’t understand. You clearly don’t understand this one. Please explain what your definition of “advice” is so that I can understand and scrutinize your assertions. Also, please confirm your (apparent) view that repeatedly expressing concern about someone’s weight loss does not count as “advice” and does not count as “being on someone’s case” Again, so this is so that I can understand and scrutinize your statements. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/65 "2013-10-14T17:10:32Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please explain what your definition of “advice” is so that I can understand and scrutinize your assertions. > > Also, please confirm your (apparent) view that repeatedly expressing concern about someone’s weight loss does not count as “advice” and does not count as “being on someone’s case” Again, so this is so that I can understand and scrutinize your statements. No. Your weaseling is ridiculous. You’ve clearly given this person advice on either his current or potential future weight loss, and you were not qualified to do either. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/66 "2013-10-14T17:17:14Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No. Lol, of course you won’t define your terms. Because you implicitly made the ridiculous claim that if someone asks a question on a subject in good faith, it’s okay to attack them as “not knowing what they are talking about” When called out on it, you tried to weasel out of your ridiculous position by saying it applied only if the person had given “advice” on the subject. But of course you won’t define “advice” because I never actually opined to anyone about whether it’s healthy or unsafe to lose further weight. So you had to try and weasel out of your ridiculous position by asserting that being “on someone’s case” = “giving advice” > [@](#): > > Your weaseling is ridiculous. You’ve clearly given this person advice on his current and potential future weight loss, and you were not qualified to do either. . Only by your secret definition of the word “advice” which always applies when you are “on someone’s case.” But doesn’t apply if you express concern. Except when you do. :rolleyes: Anyway, I have no interest in an exchange where the other person hides his position behind a cloak of ambiguity. And we both know why you are doing it. > [@](#): > > End of story Indeed. This exchange is concluded. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/67 "2013-10-14T17:22:13Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, of course you won’t define your terms. > > Because you implicitly made the ridiculous claim that if someone asks a question on a subject in good faith, it’s okay to attack them as “not knowing what they are talking about” After they’ve given out advice that they aren’t qualified to give, like you did. > [@](#): > > When called out on it, you tried to weasel out of your ridiculous position by saying it applied only if the person had given “advice” on the subject. No I didn’t. I clarified my position. It’s what rational people do in an exchange. > [@](#): > > But of course you won’t define “advice” because I never actually opined to anyone about whether it’s healthy or unsafe to lose further weight. Yes you did. In this thread, and to your relative. > [@](#): > > So you had to try and weasel out of your ridiculous position by asserting that being “on someone’s case” = “giving advice” It does. Absolutely. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I have no interest in engaging with someone who hides his position behind a cloak of ambiguity. And we both know why you are doing it. Then you should stop doing so. I haven’t seen this many contortions since the last time I went to the circus. Toodles! ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/68 "2013-10-14T17:27:41Z")
From the picture, I would guess his BF is 15-20%. His muscles will really start to show more when he gets under 15%. At this point, it’s really more for vanity than health reasons to lose weight. However, the cardiovascular and other physical improvements from exercise will give him more health benefits than just losing weight. In other words, if he had to chose between losing weight without exercise or staying the same weight with exercise, he should pick the exercise. It’s pretty difficult to stay under 10% if your body isn’t built that way or you’re not in a very active lifestyle. You’ll feel hungry all the time. So unless you’re extremely motivated and have a strong will, you’ll settle on a higher % so you don’t have to fight urges all the time. So likely even if he does get a low BF %, he won’t stay there forever. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/69 "2013-10-14T17:30:48Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Indeed. This exchange is concluded. Goodbye. Good Day Sir! ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/70 "2013-10-14T17:51:40Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > A middle-aged (40s) family member of mine has been going to the gym a lot lately. We (his family) are all telling him that he looks perfectly fine and that his physique is consistent with fitness and good health. > > This individual feels that he has a bit of a gut hanging over his belt and would like to get rid of it. He has a fantasy (perhaps driven by a mid-life crisis) of having six-pack abs. > > Is it safe for a middle-aged man to get down to the body fat percentage necessary for a six-pack? Is there any health benefit? Or is it pure vanity? I can’t see the photo you posted, but if he is at or around 20% body fat, he can still stand to lose some, and remain healthy. As **filmore** stated, when you get into the lower teens or single digits, as you see with competition body builders, it becomes more a matter of vanity, and in the worst cases, non-sustainable. But it’s not like that type of physique is going to creep up on him over night, with no side-effects. For example, at the lower digits, you deal with hydration issues, so needless to say, his body will talk to him. I’d suggest he consult his doctor just to make sure he’s healthy in other areas at his age, but it doesn’t sound like there’s a major concern with 15-20% body fat. Encourage him to do so properly, not to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/71 "2013-10-14T18:46:03Z")
> [@CLee](#): > > There hasn’t been an “exchange” since you started this thread looking to advance your agenda. What exactly is this poster’s agenda? I know there is one. All his threads are so bizarre. But I can’t figure out what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/72 "2013-10-14T18:47:28Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > What exactly is this poster’s agenda? I know there is one. All his threads are so bizarre. But I can’t figure out what it is. Guilt sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/73 "2013-10-14T19:50:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, OK, but as others have said, our culture has altered what we think is healthy due to the high numbers of genuinely overweight and obese people wandering around. Yes, that’s a good point. > [@](#): > > Again, a crude tool. Do you think it’s worthwhile for this individual to have his body fat calculated at a sports lab? > [@](#): > > It’s unlikely he’d get below 7%, and that only with massive effort. That’s a low percentage, but there no indication it’s unhealthy in a man Have you been at that low of a percentage? If so, would you care to describe the difference in feeling between 7% and, say, 15%? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/74 "2013-10-14T20:14:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Do you think it’s worthwhile for this individual to have his body fat calculated at a sports lab? Maybe, but that’s something he should be contemplating, not you. There is also a cost for that, which may be substantial. Really, that is a question that should be addressed between him and his physician. > [@](#): > > Have you been at that low of a percentage? If so, would you care to describe the difference in feeling between 7% and, say, 15%? No, I’ve never been that low. For one thing, I’m female and human females just do not normally have that low a bodyfat percentage without extreme measures. Essential body fat for women is considered to be 10-15%, below which physical health is adversely effected. A lot of women stop menstruating even before they reach that point, and the reproductive system shutting down is a definite indication that the body is conserving resources. 20-25% bodyfat is considered fit for women and anything below that down to around 15% is considered OK, but usually found only in elite athletes and, like I said, a number of women will experience physical symptoms prior to that. For men essential bodyfat percentage is 2-5%, below which you’re definitely unhealthy. Fit for men is considered 14-17% according to a quick google, so between 5% and 17% - oh, heck with it, round it up to 20% - is OK for men provided there are no adverse symptoms. It should be obvious that there is no one, set measurement here, everything is a range of normal. For more details on athletics/body building/bodyfat percentage I’d ask Ambivalid as he’s a body-builder and probably knows more details than I would. I can’t emphasize enough that BMI is a crude measurement at best - I routinely score into the 25-28 BMI range but by other measures, such as waist-to-hip ratios, other methods of body fat calcification, and my doctor simply looking at me during a physical exam I’m not nearly as overweight/out of shape as that number implies because, due to the physical nature of my employment these past half dozen years, I really do carry more muscle than most women my size and age. (It’s getting harder to maintain as I age, though, I’m the first to admit that, and I’d like to lose about 10 pounds off what I’ve been maintaining these past 2-3 years, but those are different issues.) If your relative is working out sufficiently to acquire six-pack abs he WILL score in the overweight range for BMI even with a lower than average body fat percentage, simply because he’ll have more muscle than average and muscle weighs more than fat without making you any taller. He needs to understand that so he doesn’t pursue ridiculous goals. Acquiring a six-pack in your mid-50’s is a reasonable goal. Achieving a target BMI without consideration of other health indicators is not. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/75 "2013-10-14T21:14:31Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Do you think it’s worthwhile for this individual to have his body fat calculated at a sports lab? Not really, no. To get down to the range where he’d be at danger of being unhealthy is very difficult to do, especially as we age. If her were in danger there would be plenty of other warning signs. If he wants to know his body fat % for inspiration and goal setting then it’s worthwhile. But not for his health. He seems to be going about his mid-life crisis in a healthy and productive way. Your concern, while well intended, appears misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/76 "2013-10-14T21:26:30Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Not really, no. To get down to the range where he’d be at danger of being unhealthy is very difficult to do, especially as we age. How much more difficult than simply going from “obese” to “healthy weight”? > [@](#): > > If her were in danger there would be plenty of other warning signs. Could you name some? TIA > [@](#): > > Your concern, while well intended, appears misplaced. Thank you for not accusing me of having a negative agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/77 "2013-10-14T22:14:18Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > How much more difficult than simply going from “obese” to “healthy weight”? That’s hard to quantify. How obese, for example. _In general_, people with access to normal food sources almost never get to the point of dangerously low bodyfat. It’s usually seen in people in actual starvation situations, or those suffering an actual mental illness such as anorexia. Cravings for more calories and/or more fat will kick in with a vengeance, far more than normal cravings. There is a phenomena called “rabbit starvation”, which is normal caloric quantities without sufficient fats in the diet (so called due to it occuring in people attempting to survive eating mostly rabbits, which don’t have sufficient fat unless you eat the bone marrow and brains. Also _mal de caribou_ for similar reasons). Symptoms include diarrhea, headache, fatigue, low blood pressure and heart rate. Also that aforementioned craving for fats, sufficiently strong that people with access to such dietary items will give in to those cravings, and those that don’t frequently give in to their body’s cravings and start eating things like raw rabbit brains and bone marrow. Extreme weight loss is another symptom - it would be very unusual to achieve unhealthily low body fat without losing overall body mass. It’s not _impossible_, as noted some bodybuilders dip into the single-digits for body fat percentage, but they don’t _maintain_ those levels. Extremely low body fat would also result in changes in hair and skin, a certain amount is essential to provide padding/cushioning for internal organs, around the eyes and also for the bottom of the feet, palms of the hand, and fats are utilized to make certain types of chemicals in the body like hormones. If your relative sees a doctor regular bloodwork, such as is routine for annual physicals, might show abnormal results at extremely low body fat. In addition, you’ll see extreme leanness, both overall and also in the hands, the feet, and in the face with the eyes starting to appear sunken and the overall appearance becoming more skull-like. Because some fat IS necessary for metabolism, long term extreme low body fat will result in muscle loss as well as minimal fat and the person will lose strength. Their mental sharpness will decrease. Fatigue will become common if not ubiquitous and behavior may take on some aspects of being drunk, like poor coordination, because your nervous system uses fat for a number of purposes, including the insulating and protective coating on all nerves from your brain to your toes. Hair loss may also occur, loss of libido (both connected to insufficient hormones - your body will shut down reproduction and concentrate on pure survival). Other symptoms include increased cold sensitivity (it both insulates your body and provides energy to keep your body warm), decreased immune function, and increased bruising. But, it should be emphasized it is extremely rare to have the willpower to achieve this in the civilized world where there are all sorts of foods readily available. Long before a person achieves the extreme fat cravings will kick in and, again, most people don’t have the willpower to resist that long. It’s a survival mechanism honed over millions of years to prevent people from getting completely stupid about eating. People being people, some ARE that idiotic but, like I said, it’s rare. Odds are your relative, even if he achieves his six pack, is never going anywhere near that level. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/78 "2013-10-14T23:42:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s hard to quantify. How obese, for example. The guy has lost a good deal of weight. Maybe 35 pounds? > [@](#): > > Cravings for more calories and/or more fat will kick in with a vengeance, far more than normal cravings. I believe you but I am wondering how strong those cravings are compared to the cravings someone might feel from losing, say, 35 pounds and keeping it off. > [@](#): > > Odds are your relative, even if he achieves his six pack, is never going anywhere near that level. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/79 "2013-10-15T01:35:52Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > The guy has lost a good deal of weight. Maybe 35 pounds? Well, that’s an accomplishment but it’s not super impressive. Another factor is how long it took him to lose the weight. Dropping 30 pounds in a month would be a serious warning flag in many cases. Dropping 35 pounds over the course of a year or more is fine and is considered a healthy rate of weight loss. It’s less than 1 pound a week on average and can often be accomplished by making relatively mild changes in diet and behavior. > [@](#): > > I believe you but I am wondering how strong those cravings are compared to the cravings someone might feel from losing, say, 35 pounds and keeping it off. Crash diets are more problematic than slow, steady weight loss. Someone taking a year or two to lose 30-40 pounds is actually unlikely to have severe cravings of any sort, and is more likely to make the change permanent than a crash-dieter. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145/80 "2013-10-15T01:51:46Z")
I lost 60+ lbs (1/4 of my body weight) and got down to about 18% body fat. I was never able to get below that - even with lots of cardio. I just couldn’t reduce the amount of food in my diet to go lower and have the energy to live my life. I did all this at about the same age as your friend. What kind of information would make you feel better about what your friend is doing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-safe-to-have-sixpack-abs-healthy/671145.md?page=5)