# Is it so uncommon to have a strict grocery budget? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 22, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463 "2017-02-22T13:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/141 "2017-03-01T17:47:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Was I really wrong to take these, and other similar comments, as “budgets are a useful, if crude and blunt, tool for people like \*\*Slacker \*\*who don’t have our experience, discipline, financial acuity, or flawless instincts”? IMO, yes, you were wrong to take it like that. You asked for opinions and people were describing what worked for them. I can see where some responses were worded poorly, but I don’t see any of them as a slam on you or on budgeting in any meaningful way. Different squids for different kids, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Maurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Maurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maurie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/142 "2017-03-01T19:23:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Was I really wrong to take these, and other similar comments, as “budgets are a useful, if crude and blunt, tool for people like \*\*Slacker \*\*who don’t have our experience, discipline, financial acuity, or flawless instincts”? Thank you, sincerely, for the examples. Yes, I honestly think you’re wrong to take it like that, and I’m sorry that you have. I would never wake up on time without an alarm clock, but if some people said they don’t need an alarm clock because they are naturally early risers, or because they always go to bed super early, or because they have gotten their bodies into a routine, I am not going to assume that they then must also mean “_unlike that lazy, irresponsible Maurie!_” I rely heavily on GPS, but if some people said they never use one because they have an innate sense of direction and a great memory for places, I am not going to take that to mean that they therefore think I am stupid and forgetful. It’s simply that different people work differently. I guess I just can’t understand what answers you _wouldn’t_ take as an insult to you (other than enthusiastic agreement that a budget is the only way to go). A sincere question that I honestly would like to learn from if you’re willing – can you give me an example of how someone who is neither rich nor overly frugal, but chooses not to use a budget, could express how they manage to do so without appearing to criticize anyone else’s choice? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/143 "2017-03-01T19:46:23Z")
> [@Maurie](#): > > I guess I just can’t understand what answers you _wouldn’t_ take as an insult to you (other than enthusiastic agreement that a budget is the only way to go). A sincere question that I honestly would like to learn from if you’re willing – can you give me an example of how someone who is neither rich nor overly frugal, but chooses not to use a budget, could express how they manage to do so without appearing to criticize anyone else’s choice? Again, go back and look at my posts. Does it look like I got prickly so quickly as you imply? If you can’t see what I see in the examples I cited, we can’t really have a mutually intelligible discussion of this. However, just to narrowly answer your question in an offhand manner without going through each response in the thread in detail _again_, I would say that a quick glance at the first page indicates that the first five responses certainly qualify as non-critical. So, by the way, does my OP. Nowhere in there do I say anything like “I can’t imagine how people get by without budgets, especially if they have a limited income”. Any thread of more than a page is going to go on tangents, and I embrace that; but I don’t think my original “question” was even what you seem to think it is. My initial expectation was just basic informational answers like “To the contrary, I know lots of people who have a strict grocery budget” or “No, I don’t use one and I don’t think many people do these days, so I think you’re right that it’s become old-fashioned”. I would have had no argument with reports like that. It’s the “budgets are for recovering spendthrifts and amateurs” line that rubs me the wrong way. Again, I don’t insist the topic stay within my initial expectations, but I maintain that the tenor of my posts changed only in response to that shift, in a measured and toned-down way. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/144 "2017-03-01T20:06:09Z")
Other people’s choices are not an indictment of yours. Seeing shade where none was dealt is a sure sign. You’d do well to consider on that, I think. It’s starting to seem like your real intent may have been to get props for your crazy awesome budgeting techniques and discipline. Sorry your thread didn’t go that way. You keep maintaining that ‘unless you have a healthy income…’, it’s essential to budget stridently is just wrong. My household has never broken the $20k threshold, in our working lives. And yet, we have neither been strident budgeters. Why? Because we’re not that way! Our income was so low, that for many years we had no credit cards. So we lived in a cash world. An education in itself. We liked to go on travels and that meant learning to seriously save. Like a big pile, to go away for a couple of months. At which point we would also have to manage our spending while away and without income, just an ever diminishing fund. Believe it or not, those are some fierce financial skills to master. They will serve a person well for a lifetime. We managed all this, not because we made lots of money, but because of how we spent the money we had. Not because we stridently kept a budget, but because we intuitively curbed our spending, and shrunk our lifestyle sufficiently to afford the things we really wanted. Maintaining there is only your way, for anyone without real wealth is nonsense. And you seem entirely deaf to all the people who tried to tell you not everyone needs your style of strict discipline. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/145 "2017-03-01T20:56:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Other people’s choices are not an indictment of yours. Seeing shade where none was dealt is a sure sign. You’d do well to consider on that, I think. :rolleyes: As long as you’re laying it on so thick with the gaslighting, you might as well (or should I say “do well to”) insist that there is nothing arch or patronizing about your tone in this post, either. While you’re at it, maybe you could also try to claim that the adjective “strident”, which you used multiple times to modify “budget” or “budgeting”, is neutral or positive rather than negative. 😉 > [@elbows](#): > > It’s starting to seem like your real intent may have been to get props for your crazy awesome budgeting techniques and discipline. Sorry your thread didn’t go that way. I’ll repeat that while I wasn’t sure what responses I would get, I expected it to probably be similar to that on social media, with an overwhelming majority of people reporting that they don’t use a budget and thus helping confirm my hunch that it has become old-fashioned. Nowhere in my OP did I describe my techniques; nor did I ask for an opinion as to whether what I’m doing is the smart play. Furthermore, this board is clearly a big enough place so that my reputation and history do not always precede me, but those who do know me know that I don’t expect to go into any SDMB thread with an expectation of attaboys and huzzahs. It happens from time to time, but it is more the exception than the rule and I am hardly oblivious to that fact. > [@elbows](#): > > My household has never broken the $20k threshold, in our working lives. And yet, we have neither been strident budgeters. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking this at face value, and also assuming that: you are more than one person (otherwise you are using the royal “we”); you live in the U.S.; you rely on that \<$20K to meet all of your household’s needs including rent, utilities, and food, without tapping into some sort of inherited resource or help from family/friends/church/government/some other organization I’m not thinking of; you (plural) do not trade your labor or goods you produce for non-monetary compensation; then it is impressive indeed to be able to honestly say all the above, and also to have saved for traveling, without budgeting. More than impressive, it is **astonishing**. I would say you should write your method in a book…but apparently there _is_ no method. So congratulations to you. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/146 "2017-03-01T21:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > (1) We just wing it paycheck to paycheck, grasshopper style, and at the end of the month we might struggle to afford enough food to eat. Bills might get behind, and if our car breaks down or some other unexpected event hits us, we’d be caught flatfooted, maybe have to call our parents for a bailout. Unacceptable. > > (2) We go into extreme penny pinching mode until we have salted away enough in savings not to feel so vulnerable (a couple grand at least). Rice and beans for every meal, cancel Netflix (we already don’t have cable or satellite), no birthday parties or gifts for the kids, turn the thermostat way down and bundle up if it’s winter, cut off the AC and sweat if it’s summer. Then, speaking of thermostats: once we have the agreed upon amount in reserve, we relax a bit and live more normally. But then if we ever have to tap into that reserve, we go back into uber-frugal belt tightening mode again until the reserve fund is refilled. Feast and famine, like yoyo dieting. > > #2 is more acceptable than the first option, but I much prefer doing it the way we do. For one thing, in a household with more than one adult, there are perverse, “tragedy of the commons” incentives attached to the “thermostat” plan. With our envelopes, if I want an americano or an IPA, I can buy it if and only if I have money left in my personal spending allotment for the month. If I blow it all three days into the month, that has no impact on my wife and children. But in system #2, my incentive is to quickly buy as many “fun” but unnecessary things for myself as I reasonably can as long as the “indicator light” is green. And her incentive is the same. > > Now, hopefully basic decency will prevent us from doing this in the extreme. But let’s say one month we still drop into monetary lockdown mode anyway. That will make both my wife and me cranky, and we will start to wonder “whose fault is it that we are in this shitty predicament?” And absent the amazing coincidence of our both spending exactly the same amount “frivolously”, it will be one person’s fault more than the other, even if we can’t be sure which one of us it is. So we have a marital fight over it. > > Now let’s say it’s two months later and the reserve fund is restored. I get another six pack of IPAs and pop one open. My wife gives me the stink eye, like “oh great, here we go again”. Maybe we fight, or maybe we just sit there in silence, both feeling grumpy. The next time I am tempted to buy some beer, I get a knot in my stomach. Maybe I buy it anyway and stress about what she may be thinking; or maybe I don’t buy it, and feel resentful. Nowhere did you describe your techniques? Wha? So nice of you to give me the benefit of the doubt, after accusing me of being all arch and everything! 😃 I fit every criteria you mention, except I live in Canada. And you’re only astonished because part of you still can’t see your way isn’t the ONLY way. Even for those not of considerable wealth. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/147 "2017-03-01T21:51:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, we have a grocery budget, just like we have a budget for everything else. People who don’t budget are either very rich, or poor. Or they are rich but don’t want to stay that way. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Telemark](#): > > Or they naturally spend within their means. Right. I mean, yeah, there are people who are so impulsive and consumeristic that they’ll burn through all their money if they don’t stay diligent. But I don’t think most people are this way. They buy what they need first, and then add the most pressing “wants” when they get the occasional whim. I don’t know about most people, but at any given moment, there are few things that really want, let alone “big” wants. So there’s no need for me to budget for the grocery store. I’m happy if I don’t go over $50 for my weekly re-up, but it’s not like I intentionally stick to this number. It just seems to naturally come out to that amount. But I am more conscientious about my take-out/restaurant spending, because I find it easier to get carried away when I eat out. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/148 "2017-03-01T22:38:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Nowhere did you describe your techniques? Wha? It’s always a good idea to read carefully, but never more so than when you are questioning what someone says because you find it so surprising or hard to believe. What I actually said was (emphasis added): “Nowhere _in my OP_ did I describe my techniques; nor did I ask for an opinion as to whether what I’m doing is the smart play.” I was under the impression that “OP” was a very standard and universally understood abbreviation, not only here but just in message board culture in general. But maybe not? It stands for “original post”, meaning the post that starts the thread. It can also mean “original poster”, the _person_ who started the thread with his or her original post. But since I am the original poster of this thread, when I say “my OP”, it of necessity refers to that very first post in the thread. Hopefully that clears it up for you. P.S. $20K is even less in Canadian money, although of course you don’t have to pay for your health care. Do you live off the land in a forest or something? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/149 "2017-03-01T22:52:28Z")
Speaking of reading carefully, if you go back you’ll see I spelled out exactly how we did it.😃 (I realize your lengthy, detailed explanation of your technique was NOT in your OP. Still lengthy and detailed, in my opinion, especially considering no one asked! 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/150 "2017-03-01T23:04:57Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I find shopping for groceries at say a Costco, Walmart, Target, or even Whole foods is difficult because so many items you buy there are not food related. So I might buy chicken, apples, milk, new shoes, and a new tv at Costco. > > Also at Costco when I buy something like laundry detergent its in a large size which could last me for a year. > > So if one is going to do a strict grocery budget you should stick to grocery stores only and have only one person doing the shopping. We generally go to Costco together, I’m the one who tracks spending (again not exactly ‘budget’ if that means seeming like I’m telling her what to buy or not, which I’ve learned to avoid :)), and I make a note of which items are clothes, durable goods etc of my categories other than ‘supermarket stuff’. Target tends to be smaller trips often by her alone, a little more of a hassle to track accurately. But in general the point is similar to (literally) cash in envelope v credit card. There’s some trade off between more economical/convenient stores or methods of payment (we don’t usually leave 1.5-5% cash back on the table by using cash, that’s wasting money as I see it) v rigorous budgeting. And like you say Costco isn’t the best place if you control to the point of flat spending each month, because you might buy months worth of an item. But I guess not many people are really trying to level everything out each month. Separate/joint is a more obvious ‘whatever works for you’ than budget. Some people obviously need to budget but don’t (which has more downside than people who do but don’t need to). It’s hard to see the objective criteria for saying a couple should have joint/separate accounts. The bulk of our assets are in one name or the other, but the account everything flows through to spend is joint. ---
**Author:** ![Fruitbat2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Fruitbat2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fruitbat2)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/151 "2017-03-02T00:59:33Z")
And of course whether people formally spell out a budget or not for their monthly expenses is far from the be all and end all. If you don’t work on increasing your income or save and regularly invest for the future, you still won’t likely end up in a good place. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/152 "2017-03-02T01:38:06Z")
Yeah, that “invest for retirement” thing is pretty key for the vast majority of people, and the majority of that majority are dropping the ball. Fortunately for us, my wife is in one of the last remaining jobs with a defined-benefit pension (including for me as a survivor if necessary), making that moot for us. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/153 "2017-03-02T02:22:20Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yeah, that “invest for retirement” thing is pretty key for the vast majority of people, and the majority of that majority are dropping the ball. Fortunately for us, my wife is in one of the last remaining jobs with a defined-benefit pension (including for me as a survivor if necessary), making that moot for us. …until the company takes away the “guaranteed” pension, as has happened to so many people. Have a backup plan, please. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/154 "2017-03-02T02:49:50Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > …until the company takes away the “guaranteed” pension, as has happened to so many people. Have a backup plan, please. It’s the government (she’s a public school teacher). If things get so pear-shaped that the government’s defaulting on special ed teachers’ pensions, I can’t imagine a 401(k) is going to be in better shape. Sounds more like we’ll all be standing around fires in oil drums and sharpening our pointy sticks to catch rats to eat. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/155 "2017-03-02T13:29:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s the government (she’s a public school teacher). Talk to the public employees in RI. Their pension went poof, my wife got less than 50 cents on the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![4kad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/7cd45c/32.png) [@4kad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4kad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/156 "2017-03-02T15:17:50Z")
I live alone and shop for the week on Mondays and for the weekend on Fridays. I don’t like to go over $25 when I shop for the week and not over $20 when I shop for the weekend So overall I want to stay under $180 for the month ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/157 "2017-03-02T16:37:20Z")
> [@](#): > > …although of course you don’t have to pay for your health care. Sorry, I cannot let this pass without correction. Of course we all pay for our health care. The cost is based largely on income, and your employer matches your contributions. For most people it is simply deducted off their paycheques. It’s true there aren’t copays and we don’t cut cheques to hospitals. But we DO pay for health care insurance. Just not in the same format as American’s do. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/158 "2017-03-02T17:34:13Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s the government (she’s a public school teacher). If things get so pear-shaped that the government’s defaulting on special ed teachers’ pensions, I can’t imagine a 401(k) is going to be in better shape. > [@Telemark](#): > > Talk to the public employees in RI. Their pension went poof, my wife got less than 50 cents on the dollar. There are other examples, too. And at the risk of this turning into a political potshot, we’ve got a party/leader in power right now who are trying to defund part or all of medicare, social security, the ACA, _public education (particularly special ed)_, and to renegotiate the national debt – no matter the cost, especially if that cost is paid by the poor and educators. The notion that a pension–even a government one–is safe as a sole retirement option is long gone. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/159 "2017-03-03T00:03:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Talk to the public employees in RI. Their pension went poof, my wife got less than 50 cents on the dollar. Wow…that sucks. Sorry to hear it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463/160 "2017-03-05T05:51:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The whole concept of “budget” is an arcane mystery to those of us who have acquired the mindset of spending less than we earn, and we just buy what we need and pay what it costs, and sometimes also what we want. It’s just instinctive – “I can’t afford that”. No pocket calculator required. But if you want to save and invest for retirement, college, a new boat, or other large purchases careful budgeting can help optimize that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-so-uncommon-to-have-a-strict-grocery-budget/780463.md?page=9)