# Is it socially acceptable to be an atheist in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837 "2014-08-05T01:15:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/101 "2014-08-07T20:04:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > **Marley23** - two major reasons? I hope we’re not talking another damn dynasty here! “He’s not an atheist” or “He thinks admitting he’s an atheist would ruin his legacy.” ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/102 "2014-08-07T22:05:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My observation is that religion among certain religious folks has become more militant in the past 30 years or so here in the USA. I think that’s because they feel like everything they used to take for granted is slipping away, and they are terrified. I’ve known I was an atheist since I was 12 or 13; I’ve known I was gay since I was 7. There is no question in my mind which gave me more trouble/concern when I was young - hint: I was never in the closet about my atheism. I grew up and spent my life on the west coast, except for a couple of years in Chicago. Now things have changed somewhat, at least in my own life. I am open about being gay to pretty much everyone (this might change if I ever have to travel in other parts of the country). I am slightly less open and comfortable about being an atheist, just because it comes up so seldom that it seems like a more private sort of conversation. That’s kind of weird, now that I think about it. I don’t like the influence of religion in American life. But I don’t have any direct personal experience of myself or anyone else being shunned for not believing in it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/103 "2014-08-07T23:04:15Z")
I don’t see any definitive reason to think that Obama was an atheist before he became a Christian when he was around 30. He was raised by his mother and his mother’s parents, none of whom considered themselves to be Christian or much of anything else. His description of his mother’s beliefs makes it sound like she was one of those people who call themselves “spiritual but not religious.” As an anthropologist, she was fascinated with religion, but it’s not obvious that she had any clear beliefs herself. It appears that Obama was someone who didn’t think much about religion before the age of 30. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/104 "2014-08-07T23:10:11Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It appears that Obama was someone who didn’t think much about religion before the age of 30. Which I suppose could arguably be considered atheist…but I think it’s a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/105 "2014-08-07T23:13:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I find it interesting that everyone always thinks their side is the underdog. > > Christians in America are the underdog. > > Atheists in America: “Hey, we’re the underdog!” > > Muslims in America: “Hey, we have a hard time! It’s hard being a Muslim in America!” > > Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs…Not so loudly, but I’m sure they think they’re an underdog too. I submit that this is not really correct: most Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, _ad finitum_, do not consider themselves or their creed to be underdogs. Most of them just get on with it. Maher observes that his Atheism consumes an almost imperceptible amount of his time and is not the thing that defines him – I believe that this is true for the lion’s share of everyone, there are only a few persecuted victims and martyrs out there making all the noise. And that is kind of an unfortunate thing, that the easiest way to identify and characterize a group is typically based on its loudest (often most obnoxious) members. Most of us really do not give a flying fuck, unless we are forced to take sides in a conflict. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/106 "2014-08-07T23:36:05Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Which I suppose could arguably be considered atheist…but I think it’s a stretch. Depends on your definition of “atheist”, of course. But if you define atheism as lacking any belief in a god or gods, which I think is a reasonable definition, then those who have never engaged with religion and are not sufficiently interested in it to form any opinions are certainly atheists. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/107 "2014-08-07T23:54:03Z")
…yeah, fair enough. I think I’m more concerned about connotation than denotation, but I’m not at all sure I should be. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/108 "2014-08-08T01:19:52Z")
Perhaps you could consider that someone who hasn’t thought about religion at all to be an agnostic, but I have a hard time considering them to be an atheist. Their answer to the question “Does God exist” is “Huh?”. I don’t think that someone who hasn’t even formulated an answer to that question should be considered to be a theist, an agnostic, or an atheist, just as an American who answers a question on a form that says “Are you a Republican or a Democrat?” with “Huh?” is neither. They’re not even an independent. Someone who doesn’t even understand the question fits into a separate category. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/109 "2014-08-08T02:18:31Z")
The definitions of these terms are infinitely disputed. However at least one definition of “agnostic” involves a positive view that one cannot know whether there are any gods or not. That is to say, on this definition, agnosticism is a conscious, knowing position that cannot be arrived at without active consideration of the issue. Contrastingly, a common definition of “atheism” is simply someone without any belief in any gods. By that definition, someone can be an atheist without any active consideration of the issue, and indeed someone who has never considered the issue must be an atheist. Unless you consider that people can have a belief in something they have never considered. Which would be silly. As I said at the outset there are too many definitions of these terms to ever say anything definitively, but by common definitions of agnostic and atheist, you are dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/110 "2014-08-08T02:28:07Z")
Arguments about definitions are, basically, pointless and boring. But in the context of this thread, we could frame the question this way: Is it socially acceptable in the US to have no interest in or involvement with religion, and no opinions on religious questions? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/111 "2014-08-08T02:37:10Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Depends on your definition of “atheist”, of course. But if you define atheism as lacking any belief in a god or gods, which I think is a reasonable definition, then those who have never engaged with religion and are not sufficiently interested in it to form any opinions are certainly atheists. That’s [apatheism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism). > [@](#): > > Apatheism (/ˌæpəˈθiːɪzəm/ a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism), also known as pragmatic atheism or practical atheism, is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity. Apatheism describes the manner of acting towards a belief or lack of a belief in a deity, so it applies to both theism and atheism. An apatheist is also someone who is not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. In other words, an apatheist is someone who considers the question of the existence of gods as neither meaningful nor relevant to their life. > > Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) claims that no amount of debate can prove or disprove the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/112 "2014-08-08T02:47:01Z")
Meh. If they live their lives without a care for theism, I figure that makes them atheists by definition. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/113 "2014-08-08T02:47:41Z")
Living in suburban Orange County in Southern California I regularly encounter and interact with atheists (and many of them are my friends) and I’ve never seen anyone give them a hard time for it. They are fairly open about their lack of belief although they do not go into endless tirades against religion as some forum members are wont to do. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/114 "2014-08-08T02:55:24Z")
Princhester, I’ve just looked through various definitions of atheism, and I’m not convinced that there is any standard one. In any case, I think that it would be more useful to have four categories for any such question: Choice A Choice B Can’t decide between choice A and B but have thought about them Don’t even understand the choices. Using the definition you mention is like saying that a Republican is anyone who hasn’t decided to be a Democrat. It would be like saying that there aren’t four categories: Believe that purple pangolins exist Believe that purple pangolins don’t exist Don’t know if purple pangolins exist Don’t know what pangolins are and not even sure what this color purple is This would be like claiming that someone who don’t know what a pangolin (or the color purple) is should be considered an anti-purple-pangolinist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/115 "2014-08-08T03:04:46Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Living in suburban Orange County in Southern California I regularly encounter and interact with atheists (and many of them are my friends) and I’ve never seen anyone give them a hard time for it. They are fairly open about their lack of belief although they do not go into endless tirades against religion as some forum members are wont to do. Have any of them stepped outside the roles expected of them and ran for office openly as atheists? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/116 "2014-08-08T03:15:43Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Princhester, I’ve just looked through various definitions of atheism, and I’m not convinced that there is any standard one. In any case, I think that it would be more useful to have four categories for any such question: > > Choice A > Choice B > Can’t decide between choice A and B but have thought about them > Don’t even understand the choices. > > Using the definition you mention is like saying that a Republican is anyone who hasn’t decided to be a Democrat. It would be like saying that there aren’t four categories: > > Believe that purple pangolins exist > Believe that purple pangolins don’t exist > Don’t know if purple pangolins exist > Don’t know what pangolins are and not even sure what this color purple is > > This would be like claiming that someone who don’t know what a pangolin (or the color purple) is should be considered an anti-purple-pangolinist. But you’re assuming here, I think, that an atheist must be “anti-God”. But that’s begging the question, surely? If “atheist” can embrace everyone who has no belief in God - and I think that’s a reasonable and defensible definition myself - then it certainly embraces those who are not sufficiently interested in the question to have formed an opinion on whether God is real, and those who believe that the question is inherently unanswerable. Neither of them can be said to be “anti-God”. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/117 "2014-08-08T03:16:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have any of them stepped outside the roles expected of them and ran for office openly as atheists? Not yet considering most of them are in high school, college, or just starting their careers. Although our state has elected an atheist governor and a Congressman. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/118 "2014-08-08T03:16:50Z")
The question (OP) is not really about the technical definition of “atheist” or “agnostic”, most people – the ones who might accept or reject unbelievers – have their own various ideas about what the terms mean and base their judgement on those ideas. The question was do American atheists feel a need to closet-up completely, and by extension, what degree of equivocation/hedging is called for or appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/119 "2014-08-08T03:26:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The question (OP) is not really about the technical definition of “atheist” or “agnostic”, most people – the ones who might accept or reject unbelievers – have their own various ideas about what the terms mean and base their judgement on those ideas. The question was do American atheists feel a need to closet-up completely, and by extension, what degree of equivocation/hedging is called for or appropriate. But the answer depends on who we think “American atheists” are, surely? If what gets you into strife is not your lack of belief in God but, e.g., your proclamation of your conviction that no God exists, or your denunciation of the theistic beliefs of others, then it might be the case that lots of American atheists (as in, people with no belief in God) do not suffer any social disadvantage at all and it is, e.g., anti-theism which attracts censure. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837/120 "2014-08-08T03:50:06Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > This would be like claiming that someone who don’t know what a pangolin (or the color purple) is should be considered an anti-purple-pangolinist. What \*\*UDS \*\*said. You are confusing anti-theist and atheist. It’s a common thing to do. There is nothing inherently anti- in atheism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-socially-acceptable-to-be-an-atheist-in-the-us/694837.md?page=7)