# Is it still possible for an SSBN to launch missiles without the president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874 "2012-09-26T12:35:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/1 "2012-09-26T12:35:42Z")
During the Cold War the captain of an American SSBN could launch his missiles without the president or any higher ups giving the order. Is it still possible? Could a rouge SSBN launch his missiles without the president? ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/2 "2012-09-26T12:40:55Z")
According to [Permissive action link - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_Action_Link), no. ---
**Author:** ![BoomerSailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@BoomerSailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoomerSailor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/3 "2012-09-26T13:04:41Z")
No. That was changed in the early 1990s. The Captain’s Indicator Panel key (CIP key) is no longer in the custody of the captain. There are 3 safes in the command and control center and each safe has a copy of the CIP key. The CIP safes are guarded by two sailors and an alarm will sound when they are opened. Nobody on the boat knows the combination to the CIP safes. That comes in as part of the Emergency Action Message (EAM) from National Command Authority. But if one of the CIP safes could somehow be broken open. Then there would be nothing stopping the crew from launching. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/4 "2012-09-26T13:12:19Z")
But apparently the UK sub trident commanders can potentially fire independently. > **[Letters of last resort](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort)** > > The letters of last resort are four identically-worded handwritten letters from the prime minister of the United Kingdom to the commanding officers of the four British ballistic missile submarines.\[A\] They contain orders on what action to take if an enemy nuclear strike has destroyed the British government, and has killed or otherwise incapacitated both the prime minister and their designated "second person" of responsibility, typically a high-ranking member of the Cabinet such as the deputy p... I guess there could be a code that unlocks access to the letters of last resort and they contain the firing code… but that would seem to eliminate the point of the UK subs being able to retaliate if the UK government is destroyed and can’t send the unlock code. wiki on PAL says: The current UK Trident warheads can also be launched by a submarine commander with the support of his crew without any code being transmitted from the chain of command.[ ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/5 "2012-09-26T14:20:13Z")
On a more practical note. What the captain says is not what goes when things get that serious. I suspect that if the situation got serious and weird the rest of the crew/command structure onboard a sub would NOT “allow” a captain to launch. Those guys know how serious that shit is and know the ramifications of a bad launch. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/6 "2012-09-26T14:36:36Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > On a more practical note. What the captain says is not what goes when things get that serious. I suspect that if the situation got serious and weird the rest of the crew/command structure onboard a sub would NOT “allow” a captain to launch. Those guys know how serious that shit is and know the ramifications of a bad launch. All steps in the nuclear launch sequence require the consent of two people, from the President on down. The National Command Authority that **Boomer** refers to above consists of the President plus the Secretary of Defense. On the sub itself, all actions involving nuclear launches have to be confirmed by the Captain and the first officer. Any violation of this protocol at any level would throw a serious wrench into the works. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/7 "2012-09-26T14:39:01Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > …Could a rouge SSBN launch his missiles without the president? The sub can be any color at all, but these days, most of them are black. **moonshot925** , were you thinking of this upcoming TV series? [Last Resort (TV series) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Resort_(U.S._TV_series)) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/8 "2012-09-26T14:44:11Z")
You mean the [Susquehanna Sustainable Business Network](http://susquehannasbn.org/) could launch a unilateral nuclear war?! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/9 "2012-09-26T14:50:01Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You mean the [Susquehanna Sustainable Business Network](http://susquehannasbn.org/) could launch a unilateral nuclear war?! :eek: Do they have any contacts with the [Korea Fair Trade Commission](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFTC) (or, KFTC for short?) ---
**Author:** ![BoomerSailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@BoomerSailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoomerSailor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/10 "2012-09-26T17:56:19Z")
PAL-equivalents called Coded Control Devices(CCDs) were added to the SSBN force after a DOD commission on risk reduction recommended it in 1992. They were all installed by 1997. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/11 "2012-09-26T18:00:16Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > On the sub itself, all actions involving nuclear launches have to be confirmed by the Captain and the first officer. Any violation of this protocol at any level would throw a serious wrench into the works. No doubt. But THOSE two people better be well armed or have the rest of the crew locked in the broom closet if they intend to launch under unusual circumstances IMO. IIRC studies have shown a decent fraction of the folks have trouble sending up the red balloons even when it all appears on the up and up and they appear to have received official orders. A captain that wants to launch and doesn’t have a convincing arguement (along with some facts) is gonna have a hard time with the crew IMO. Or in other words, have the code is one thing. Being able to physically use it is another. 99 red ballons (link safe for work): https://www.youtube.com/embed/14IRDDnEPR4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque You know you are a product of the Cold War when this song almost seems believable, it sends chills down you spine and it brings a tear to your eye. dirty old man comment…cute behind on that one ---
**Author:** ![BoomerSailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9bd4f/32.png) [@BoomerSailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoomerSailor)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/12 "2012-09-26T20:02:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A captain that wants to launch and doesn’t have a convincing arguement (along with some facts) is gonna have a hard time with the crew IMO. The captain doesn’t need to convince the crew. If an EAM which contains launch orders is received, decoded and authenticated properly, it must be executed. This is what the crew trains for. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/13 "2012-09-26T21:47:39Z")
> [@BoomerSailor](#): > > The captain doesn’t need to convince the crew. If an EAM which contains launch orders is received, decoded and authenticated properly, it must be executed. This is what the crew trains for. Did you not notice the words \*\*unusual circumstances \*\* in my post? ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/14 "2012-09-26T21:50:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > **moonshot925** , were you thinking of this upcoming TV series? [Last Resort (TV series) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Resort_(U.S._TV_series)) The plot of the show is silly. The CO of a ballistic missile submarine decides to not follow orders and then nukes his own country. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-possible-for-an-ssbn-to-launch-missiles-without-the-president/635874/15 "2012-09-27T01:21:50Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > The plot of the show is silly. The CO of a ballistic missile submarine decides to not follow orders and then nukes his own country. I don’t know yet if that’s exactly what happens, but yes, it seems pretty far-fetched from what little I’ve heard.