# Is it still true, as of 2015, that meditation research "sucks and doesn't prove squat"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808 "2015-06-06T18:54:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/1 "2015-06-06T18:54:10Z")
Regarding the possibility of meditation being beneficial to the practitioner, the Master has spoken [here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3129/does-meditation-make-your-brain-work-differently), concluding that - at least as of 2013 - “the research sucks and doesn’t prove squat.” Is this still true as of 2015 - or has the situation changed? We have had a few threads on the matter, but it seems that hardly any of them include links to solid studies. (In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=668529), **Khadaji** links to [this abstract](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22805898), from 2012. In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703957), the only study mentioned sounds sorta fishy. In [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=662513) as well as [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248444), no studies were linked to at all.) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/2 "2015-06-07T03:05:45Z")
Deep rhythmic breathing can help activate the vagus nerve and the parasymphathetic nervous system which has various health benefits. I’m having trouble finding a direct study on pubmed, all I see are articles on the subject. > **[Just Breathe: Body Has A Built-In Stress Reliever](https://www.npr.org/2010/12/06/131734718/just-breathe-body-has-a-built-in-stress-reliever)** > > Deep breathing is not just relaxing; it's also been scientifically proven to affect the heart, the brain, digestion, the immune system. Research has shown that breathing exercises can have immediate effects by altering the pH of the blood, or... ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/3 "2015-06-07T10:42:41Z")
Last fall there was a good article in Scientific American. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/4 "2015-06-08T11:18:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Deep rhythmic breathing can help activate the vagus nerve and the parasymphathetic nervous system which has various health benefits. I’m having trouble finding a direct study on pubmed, all I see are articles on the subject. > > [Just Breathe: Body Has A Built-In Stress Reliever : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2010/12/06/131734718/just-breathe-body-has-a-built-in-stress-reliever) Will listen, thank you! > [@Napier](#): > > Last fall there was a good article in Scientific American. Might it be [this one?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/neuroscience-reveals-the-secrets-of-meditation-s-benefits/) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/5 "2015-06-08T12:12:27Z")
Considering the stress we all encounter in our modern lives, taking half an hour or more each day to sit and think about basically nothing has to have some stress-relieving benefits whether you are repeating a mantra or doing something else. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/6 "2015-06-08T13:58:00Z")
NewScientist recently had an ineresting article about meditation being generally neutral or beneficial, but in some few people it sets off panic, anxiety or depression. I get the print version, but the online copy of the article is here: [http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630210.500-panic-depression-and-stress-the-case-against-meditation.html](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630210.500-panic-depression-and-stress-the-case-against-meditation.html) I think you have to be a subscriber to read past the initial paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/7 "2015-06-08T14:54:14Z")
Here’s a summary of the findings from a 2014 meta-analysis: [http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/ehc/products/375/1830/Meditation-report-140106.pdf](http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/ehc/products/375/1830/Meditation-report-140106.pdf) > [@](#): > > Results. After a review of 17,801 citations, we included 41 trials with 2,993 participants. Most trials were short term, but they ranged from 4 weeks to 9 years in duration. Trials conducted against nonspecific active controls provided efficacy data. **Mindfulness meditation programs had moderate SOE for improvement in anxiety (effect size [ES], 0.40; CI, 0.08 to 0.71 at 8 weeks; ES, 0.22; CI, 0.02 to 0.43 at 3–6 months), depression (ES, 0.32; CI, −0.01 to 0.66 at 8 weeks; ES, 0.23; CI, 0.05 to 0.42 at 3–6 months); and pain (ES, 0.33; CI, 0.03 to 0.62)**; and low SOE for improvement in stress/distress and mental health–related quality of life. We found either low SOE of no effect or insufficient SOE of an effect of meditation programs on positive mood, attention, substance use, eating, sleep, and weight. In our comparative effectiveness analyses, we did not find any evidence to suggest that these meditation programs were superior to any specific therapies they were compared with. Only 10 trials had a low risk of bias. Limitations included clinical heterogeneity, variability in the types of controls, and heterogeneity of the interventions (e.g., dosing, frequency, duration, technique). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/8 "2015-06-08T21:20:05Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Considering the stress we all encounter in our modern lives, taking half an hour or more each day to sit and think about basically nothing has to have some stress-relieving benefits whether you are repeating a mantra or doing something else. I’m liable to believe that if you get a group of people together with some beers, chatting together, and goofing off that they’re not really thinking about anything either. And they get social benefits out of it. And considering the potential that the great god Cthulhu might one day rise and eat us all, it might not be so bad to sing a lullaby towards the ocean where he sleeps, to help keep him resting. It’s not just a question of whether something is good. It’s a question of whether it’s the most efficacious of all options - maybe there are better ways to get the same effect - and whether the time cost is worth spending, versus spending that time on other things in your life. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/9 "2015-06-09T02:56:55Z")
Ths still goes back to 2013, but regarding the lesser target of simply lowering blood pressure, (rather than staving off heart conditions), it appeared that [Meditation alone doesn’t lower blood pressure: study](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-meditation-idUSBRE9930XU20131004). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/10 "2015-06-13T12:55:32Z")
Heard something about this on a CBC radio program today: > **[The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You?: Farias, Miguel, Wikholm, Dr...](https://www.amazon.com/Buddha-Pill-Can-Meditation-Change/dp/1780287186)** > > The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You? \[Farias, Miguel, Wikholm, Dr Catherine\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You? Apparently mediation can exacerbate some mental problems, help others. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-still-true-as-of-2015-that-meditation-research-sucks-and-doesnt-prove-squat/721808/11 "2015-06-13T14:11:37Z")
> [@misling](#): > > NewScientist recently had an ineresting article about meditation being generally neutral or beneficial, but in some few people it sets off panic, anxiety or depression. > > I get the print version, but the online copy of the article is here: > [http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630210.500-panic-depression-and-stress-the-case-against-meditation.html](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630210.500-panic-depression-and-stress-the-case-against-meditation.html) > I think you have to be a subscriber to read past the initial paragraphs. Thank you! As a member of the unwashed neohippie masses, I’m constantly fending off people who insist that I have to try meditation. Been there, done that, and it makes my anxiety so much worse. Glad to know I’m not “doing it wrong,” and they can go stuff it.