# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/301 "2016-12-06T20:32:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think we disagree on how bad corruption can be. In another thread, we are discussing controversial police shootings and I think that the biggest problem that cannot be easily addressed is not the racism that might be the root of these police shootings but the corruption that covers up for these bad cops. I think they’re highly related – but the disparities in treatment of black and white people are due to racism, whether at the individual, institutional, or societal level. Covering them up might be due to corruption. But you appear to have missed my point – that we’re not so far from the past as we might like to think. Vidor, TX is a real place that’s ~100% white, in one of the blackest parts of the country (east TX and south Louisiana), and as recently as the 90s, federal efforts to bring black people into Vidor public housing failed after a KKK march. > [@](#): > > As an Asian, I probably understand subtle or “mild” racism more than most. Its so prevalent that even those who claim to be vehemently against racism are guilty of it. Absolutely – you’ll notice that I’ve never claimed to not be a racist. The best I’ll say is that I try my hardest to not say or do racist things. If I do so, I hope I get called out on it so I can improve myself. And I will call out racist things I see others say or do to help them improve themselves. It’s possible I’ll be wrong sometimes, and if so, that can start a productive conversation. It’s not the end of the world to say something racist, and it’s not the end of the world to call someone out and criticize them for it. I’ve certainly said racist things in the past, and I’m very regretful for it. > [@](#): > > So we’ve seen that anti-Islamic incidents went up in the year preceding the election. What has happened since the election? Has the incidence of hate crimes gone up or down? > > [https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/18/update-incidents-hateful-harassment-election-day-now-number-701](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/18/update-incidents-hateful-harassment-election-day-now-number-701) > > According to the SPLC incidents are decreasing. So, what is this the beginning of? That’s a single week of data. It might have gone down day to day, but in the longer term than a week it’s up significantly. If you want to say it’s going down, let’s look at the entirety of 2016 in a few weeks, and then we’ll compare it to the entirety of 2017 after that. That 11/12 might have been lower than 11/11 doesn’t tell us whether there are more hate crimes due to Trump’s campaign and election than before. > [@](#): > > Then why do you bring up the specter of slavery and genocide in your arguments? Every terrible thing like that (slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, etc.) requires baby steps. If we move backwards towards things like sundown towns, and restricting voting, we’re actually recreating parts of Jim Crow policies and practices. Slightly Jim Crow is a lot closer to Jim Crow than I’d like. Atrocities have happened, even relatively recently, in this world. The way to make sure it never happens again is to make sure we never have the attitude “it couldn’t happen here”. We didn’t have a Holocaust in the 20th century, but we did intern Japanese Americans, and that was justified politically for decades afterwards. Yes, it could happen here, if we don’t constantly remain vigilant. Imagine public opinion towards Muslims if, God forbid, there were a catastrophic terrorist attack – worse than 9/11 (say, a smuggled WMD). That’s not a 0% chance occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/302 "2016-12-06T20:33:26Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > The point you butthurt dems continue to willfully ignore is the fact that these so-called “Trumpisms” really only exist in the campaign-fueled, dirt-digging bullshit rhetoric your bitch and her minions stirred up over the past months. They are not real. They are paranoia-induced fantasies. > OTOH, Billary’s well-documented scofflaw antics, political corruption and disdain for common sense, especially in terms of her more recent SoS debacles, have a long and storied history. > > Pull you heads out of your collective asses and observe objective reality for a change. Tell me more about this “reality” in which all Hillary voters think she’s wonderful and perfect and everyone else on the planet think she’s an evil demon. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/303 "2016-12-06T20:35:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve been trying to rub the noses of those who insisted it was Hillary’s turn in the election results but they keep insisting that it was racism. The difference is, one is shitting on the floor, and one fell down the stairs. You are trying to rub the noses of those who fell down the stairs in the mess made by the one shitting on the floor, and you keep bragging about your efforts. Yeah, we get it, she lost. Bernie would have gotten 95% of the vote. Shoulda coulda woulda. Now, was hillary a mistake? Electorally, apparently, as she did not win. I do not believe she was a mistake for her ability to do the job, but yeah, she’d been around long enough that she had developed a number of negatives. Majority of them are not even true, and the true ones are blown way out of proportion, but “perception is reality” is the key. If people really think she’s running a child sex ring out of a pizza place, there’s really not much chance for her, is there? Whenever I hear anyone run down her negatives, most of them are completely false. Would someone else have done better, maybe, but we won’t know that, because they didn’t run. It’s really starting to get old. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/304 "2016-12-06T20:37:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You think Hillary lost this election because people who vote Republican year in and year out, voted Republican again in 2016? You know, we’ve had a Democrat in the white house for 8 years, right? You ever stop and think that maybe some people that voted for Obama last time voted for Trump this time? After seeing his show and reading his book, I’d have to conclude that people got dumber between then and now. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/305 "2016-12-06T20:42:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you voted for him then? What qualities do you find admirable? He’s not a politician. Pretty high high on my Trump-likes list. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Did you believe him that he would bring back jobs, that he would build a wall, that he would lock up hillary? What doesn’t happen is sometimes just as, if not MORE important than what does. The POTUS is an influencer of the highest order. I like his influence flavor on those topics much more than HRC, the LOSER with a track record of coming up short, and being on the wrong side of the law and this country’s best interests. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > What is the reality? Trump won, Billary lost. Get over it. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > What is it that you expect Trump to do? I expect him to attemp to do what he and conservatives feel is good and right for the country. Why do you expect otherwise? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Where do you see this country going under his leadership? Just about any direction other than where we’ve been headed in the 21st century would be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/306 "2016-12-06T20:49:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You mean like when we invaded Iraq? Sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. The Sunni-Shiite bullshit that’s been making the Middle East an untenable situation for centuries needed/needs to be addressed. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Or when we tried to privatize social security? Or when we tried to privatize the Flint water system? Or when we shut downt he government? These are small and tiny fuckups… Contributed to by thousands of bureaucrats and politicians over decades of neglect and abuse. What’s your point? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … compared to what geo-political brinksmanship can do. I’ll admit that geo-political brinkmanship was not an Obama strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/307 "2016-12-06T20:51:17Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. The Sunni-Shiite bullshit that’s been making the Middle East an untenable situation for centuries needed/needs to be addressed. Getting more Americans killed for nothing sounds like the best way to address it. Let me guess – it won’t be you that’s in the shit dealing with it, right? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/308 "2016-12-06T20:53:36Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > He’s not a politician. Pretty high high on my Trump-likes list. > > What doesn’t happen is sometimes just as, if not MORE important than what does. The POTUS is an influencer of the highest order. I like his influence flavor on those topics much more than HRC, the LOSER with a track record of coming up short, and being on the wrong side of the law and this country’s best interests. > > Trump won, Billary lost. Get over it. > > I expect him to attemp to do what he and conservatives feel is good and right for the country. Why do you expect otherwise? > > Just about any direction other than where we’ve been headed in the 21st century would be an improvement. Just curious. What does “Not a politician” mean? You really think he’s not a politician? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/309 "2016-12-06T20:54:32Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Just curious. What does “Not a politician” mean? You really think he’s not a politician? Trump’s a truth teller. He says he’s not a politician, so his supporters believe him. They (many/most of them, at least) also believe that Obama is a secret Muslim. And some, apparently, believed HRC was running a sex slavery ring from a DC pizza shop. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/310 "2016-12-06T20:57:22Z")
“I have no fucking idea what the rules are, how anything works or what the difference is between a president and a king-Vote for me!” Yeah, I can see the appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/311 "2016-12-06T21:03:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Alright, we get it, people voted for Trump in spite of his support of racism, Islamophobia, homophobia, sexism, and overall bigotry. They voted for him in spite of his inexperience. They voted for him in spite of his incompetence. They voted for him in spite of his lies. They voted for him in spite of his documented treatment of women. > > I can see why someone would vote for someone in spite of something they said or did or stand for, but I have yet to hear anyone give a reason to actually vote for trump, except the not-hillary crowd, who did the exact type of lumping that you accuse those who are turned off by everything that Trump has said and done. > > You say they chose trump for reasons more important than racism or sexism, can you tell me what those reasons were? Hillary is a globalist and a corporatist. Her secret speeches confirm that she wants open borders and free trade. Who knows what else is in those speeches. A lot of people feel that our trade deals have harmed them. Trump promised to renegotiate our trade deals putting workers first and corporate interests second. Trump promised to get illegal immigration under control. There are 11 million extra unskilled or low skilled workers in this country that are competing for manual labor jobs and driving down labor prices. Bernie wanted to renegotiate trade deals but was sympathetic to illegal immigrants but he would have done better than Hillary along this vector. Hillary is cozy with the oligarchs and plutocrats, in that she sucks up to them and they give money to her foundation. A lot of people feel like the Democratic party under Hillary would be no worse than the Republicans in sucking up to those with wealth and power. Bernie had a recipe book ready for when we decide to eat the rich. Hillary and her supporters cheated in the primary. A lot of people don’t like cheaters. If we knew she was a cheater during the primary, we might have nominated Bernie. Bernie could have beaten Trump (how in the world did Trump go from clown on November 7th to political genius on November 9th?). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/312 "2016-12-06T21:06:32Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > The point you butthurt dems continue to willfully ignore is the fact that these so-called “Trumpisms” really only exist in the campaign-fueled, dirt-digging bullshit rhetoric your bitch and her minions stirred up over the past months. They are not real. They are paranoia-induced fantasies. > OTOH, Billary’s well-documented scofflaw antics, political corruption and disdain for common sense, especially in terms of her more recent SoS debacles, have a long and storied history. > > Pull you heads out of your collective asses and observe objective reality for a change. Not all Dems feel that way. Some of us realize that we fucked up. We don’t accept that Trump could not be beaten, he just couldn’t be beaten by Hillary. Others would rather preserve their Madonna image of Hillary and would prefer to elevate Trump to evil political genius or something. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/313 "2016-12-06T21:08:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Others would rather preserve their Madonna image of Hillary and would prefer to elevate Trump to evil political genius or something. What others? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/314 "2016-12-06T21:08:57Z")
Why do you believe what Trump says? ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/315 "2016-12-07T00:35:56Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Just curious. What does “Not a politician” mean? You really think he’s not a politician? Not a “career criminal politician.” OR even just a garden-variety “career” politician. How’s that work for ya? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/316 "2016-12-07T00:38:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not all Dems feel that way. Some of us realize that we fucked up. We don’t accept that Trump could not be beaten, he just couldn’t be beaten by Hillary. Others would rather preserve their Madonna image of Hillary and would prefer to elevate Trump to evil political genius or something. Bernie was the man for the Democratic party this year. He would have run the table in this election. Very regrettable. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/317 "2016-12-07T01:12:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Ryan is a lot more fiscal and less social conservative. He would trade a balanced budget amendment and lower taxes for the overturn of Roe v Wade. Pence has probably already read the briefs for the hypothetical case challenging Roe v. Wade and has a spread sheets with actuarial probabilities to tell him how many justices are going to die in the next 4 to 8 years and who would be best to replace them before the hypothetical challenge to Roe. Ryan, despite his undeserved reputation as a budget wonk, is socially just about as conservative as Pence. He might not author a fertilized-egg personhood amendment, but he’d probably vote for one. And similarly Pence is going to support Ryan’s budget proposals. They may have different areas of emphasis, but there aren’t issues where they take divergent stands. > [@](#): > > Trump has no political allies and I don’t know how predictable he will be. Maybe you missed how pretty much the entire Republican party fell in line behind him this fall. They’re his allies, and he is theirs, especially since he doesn’t know shit about policy and isn’t trying to learn, so he’s got to rely on people like Ryan and Pence and McConnell. He’s not going to veto a thing. Watch. > [@](#): > > You think Hillary lost this election because people who vote Republican year in and year out, voted Republican again in 2016? You know, we’ve had a Democrat in the white house for 8 years, right? You ever stop and think that maybe some people that voted for Obama last time voted for Trump this time? I have no freakin’ idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/318 "2016-12-07T01:52:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I have no freakin’ idea what you’re talking about. Kinda like petulant teenagers, they just cannot ever admit they were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/319 "2016-12-07T02:36:31Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Not a “career criminal politician.” OR even just a garden-variety “career” politician. > > How’s that work for ya? 😉 It’s not to please me. I just wanted to confirm that you are using the “not a politician” line like all the rest of the people who try to rationalize don the con: Without any admission that he is a politician in every way that you are objecting to in other people, except for a technicality. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/320 "2016-12-07T04:20:56Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > He’s not a politician. Pretty high high on my Trump-likes list. Yeah. You know, just like when I get sick, I don’t go to a doctor. I’ve had bad experience with them. Instead, I ask Uncle Jim-Bob for his opinion, and so far I’ve only lost two limbs. Can you name a _single_ other situation where bringing in someone with _no fucking clue how to do the job_ is a good idea? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=17)