# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 17

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**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/321 "2016-12-07T05:15:17Z")

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Let me try to say this clearly:

Every trade or deal has two positions. It could be in a stock market, a fish market, the black market, in a barter arrangement, whatever. The two positions are buyer and seller, or party and counter-party if you will.

To object to politicians is to object to their corruption, as has been admitted. There are always two parties to any corruption, though.

As a businessman don the con has been the ne plus ultra of the counter-party to all political corrupt practices you could ever object to. He said as much in public.

So to say you voted for him because he’s not a pol is either the most stupid or the most disingenuous thing you could possibly say.

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**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/322 "2016-12-07T05:37:17Z")

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It’s fun to see Trumpists at a complete loss when asked to explain their Neanderthal gruntings.

Here’s **octopus** , who made some stupid claim and, when asked for a cite, _finally_ gives in after obfuscating for several posts.

> [@octopus](#):
>
> In other words I don’t feel like linking to video practically everyone who has been paying attention to US politics has seen.

And here’s **UberArchetype** finally getting down to the specifics of his hopes from the Trump Presidency:

> [@UberArchetype](#):
>
> Just about any direction other than where we’ve been headed in the 21st century would be an improvement.

We do appreciate the great effort it must have taken to get this specific — a human body with an earthworm’s brain is cruel irony — but can you list the worst things Obama has done? To save you a Woormgle, I’ll list some  
[ul][li] The stock market indexes tripled under Obama. _(Under the short-fingered showman, they would have quadrupled.)_[/li][li] The unemployment rate, which shortly after the Bush Credit Crisis rose almost to its peak under Reagan, has since plummeted and is about as low as it was in 2000 at the height of the Clinton boom. _(Under the short-fingered showman, jobs would have been so good, we’d be importing [del]workers from Mexico[/del] supermodels approved by the Kremlin.)_[/li][li] With agreements like NAFTA lifting up all boats, net immigration from Mexico is now _Negative_. _(Under the short-fingered showman, a giant Wall will keep those slaves in place?)_[/li][li] Obama has joined with Iraq, most of the Arab nations, Kurds and Turkey to oppose ISIS and its _de facto_ allies (using the ISIS threat to develop a stranglehold on the Levant) Putin and Assad. _(Under the short-fingered showman, the only priority in Syria would be building a TRUMP Hotel there.)_[/li][/ul]  
Help me; what did I miss?

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**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/323 "2016-12-07T06:50:04Z")

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> [@septimus](#):
>
> It’s fun to see Trumpists at a complete loss when asked to explain their Neanderthal gruntings.
> 
> Here’s **octopus** , who made some stupid claim and, when asked for a cite, _finally_ gives in after obfuscating for several posts.  
> And here’s **UberArchetype** finally getting down to the specifics of his hopes from the Trump Presidency:
> 
> We do appreciate the great effort it must have taken to get this specific — a human body with an earthworm’s brain is cruel irony — but can you list the worst things Obama has done? To save you a Woormgle, I’ll list some  
> [ul][li] The stock market indexes tripled under Obama. _(Under the short-fingered showman, they would have quadrupled.)_[/li][li] The unemployment rate, which shortly after the Bush Credit Crisis rose almost to its peak under Reagan, has since plummeted and is about as low as it was in 2000 at the height of the Clinton boom. _(Under the short-fingered showman, jobs would have been so good, we’d be importing [del]workers from Mexico[/del] supermodels approved by the Kremlin.)_[/li][li] With agreements like NAFTA lifting up all boats, net immigration from Mexico is now _Negative_. _(Under the short-fingered showman, a giant Wall will keep those slaves in place?)_[/li][li] Obama has joined with Iraq, most of the Arab nations, Kurds and Turkey to oppose ISIS and its _de facto_ allies (using the ISIS threat to develop a stranglehold on the Levant) Putin and Assad. _(Under the short-fingered showman, the only priority in Syria would be building a TRUMP Hotel there.)_[/li][/ul]  
> Help me; what did I miss?

I’m not a Trumpist. I just don’t like modern liberalism or the left’s political violence and tyrannical traits. Oh, making fun of neanderthals is speciesist hate speech.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/324 "2016-12-07T12:37:55Z")

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> [@octopus](#):
>
> I just don’t like modern liberalism or the left’s political violence and tyrannical traits.

Virtually no one aside from those that enjoy violence and tyranny likes the left’s “political violence and tyrannical traits”. I’ll assume that you also don’t like the right’s political violence and tyrannical traits.

Unless you’re saying that this stuff is present to some degree in the left, but not the right, then you’re saying something as trivial as “violence = bad”. If you’re saying that it’s only present in the left, then I have trouble taking such an assertion seriously.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/325 "2016-12-07T13:52:44Z")

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More support for the hypothesis that the Democrats lost the election because of the specific weakness of Hillary Clinton, not because of “identity politics” – NC transphobic governor McCrory lost the election, but Trump won NC. Support for trans rights (probably) _helped_, or at least didn’t hurt, the Democratic governor elect and hurt Republican McCrory.

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/326 "2016-12-07T13:54:37Z")

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> [@UberArchetype](#):
>
> Sometimes you just gotta roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. The Sunni-Shiite bullshit that’s been making the Middle East an untenable situation for centuries needed/needs to be addressed.

Trump doesn’t think we need to address any of that Sunni/Shiite bullshit. Its perfectly tenable for us. For example, China stays the fuck out of that hot mess. They have not had a terrorist attack within their borders despite suppression of their muslim minority.

> [@](#):
>
> Contributed to by thousands of bureaucrats and politicians over decades of neglect and abuse. What’s your point?

Those politicians were Republicans. Those bureaucrats were appointed by Republicans. That’s why Flint has lead in its water.

> [@](#):
>
> I’ll admit that geo-political brinkmanship was not an Obama strong suit.

Dick measuring contests are really just for people with small hands.

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/327 "2016-12-07T14:03:10Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> What others?

The ones who say that Hillary did nothing wrong and all the criticism of her is just plaque that has built up from 25 years of Republican mud slinging.

For example:

Criticism: Hillary’s failure to rele3ase the wall street speeches means she was hiding something.

Response: Those speeches are worth $250K a pop, and you want her to just release them for FREE??? WTF!!!

Criticism: The DNC was in the bag for Hillary and tilted the playing field.

Response: Give me a smoking gun. All you have right now are some emails circulated within the DNC leadership talking about how to bring Bernie down. What did they actually DO to take him down? And besides, he’s not a “real” Democrat like Hillary.

Criticism: The Donna Brazile revelation shows us that it was more than just smoke. Isn’t THAT a smoking gun? I mean Donna Brazile used to be head of the DNC.

Response: USED TO BE. She was not the head this year, she was a free agent.

But the facts remain that she gave speeches that contradicted what she was saying on the campaign trail; she hired Debbie Wasserman Schultz after she lost her job at the head of the DNC; Donna Brazile gave her actionable intelligence about the debates that gave her an advantage.

I don’t think EVERYONE that supports Hillary thinks she is a Madonna but plenty do.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/328 "2016-12-07T14:09:09Z")

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> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> The ones who say that Hillary did nothing wrong and all the criticism of her is just plaque that has built up from 25 years of Republican mud slinging.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Criticism: Hillary’s failure to rele3ase the wall street speeches means she was hiding something.
> 
> Response: Those speeches are worth $250K a pop, and you want her to just release them for FREE??? WTF!!!
> 
> Criticism: The DNC was in the bag for Hillary and tilted the playing field.
> 
> Response: Give me a smoking gun. All you have right now are some emails circulated within the DNC leadership talking about how to bring Bernie down. What did they actually DO to take him down? And besides, he’s not a “real” Democrat like Hillary.
> 
> Criticism: The Donna Brazile revelation shows us that it was more than just smoke. Isn’t THAT a smoking gun? I mean Donna Brazile used to be head of the DNC.
> 
> Response: USED TO BE. She was not the head this year, she was a free agent.
> 
> But the facts remain that she gave speeches that contradicted what she was saying on the campaign trail; she hired Debbie Wasserman Schultz after she lost her job at the head of the DNC; Donna Brazile gave her actionable intelligence about the debates that gave her an advantage.
> 
> I don’t think EVERYONE that supports Hillary thinks she is a Madonna but plenty do.

I don’t know of any Doper who says Hillary did nothing wrong.

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/329 "2016-12-07T14:09:49Z")

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> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> Ryan, despite his undeserved reputation as a budget wonk, is socially just about as conservative as Pence. He might not author a fertilized-egg personhood amendment, but he’d probably vote for one. And similarly Pence is going to support Ryan’s budget proposals. They may have different areas of emphasis, but there aren’t issues where they take divergent stands.

Yes, they are still both Republicans but they are different types of Republicans. They are certainly different than Trump.

> [@](#):
>
> Maybe you missed how pretty much the entire Republican party fell in line behind him this fall. They’re his allies, and he is theirs, especially since he doesn’t know shit about policy and isn’t trying to learn, so he’s got to rely on people like Ryan and Pence and McConnell.

And Obama, in case you’ve missed all the time they’ve been spending together. Trump doesn’t need Republican allies, the Republicans are getting behind Trump because they need HIM.

> [@](#):
>
> He’s not going to veto a thing. Watch.

Mostly because they will ask him before they pass anything. If they try to pass the Republican version of the TPA and TPP unaltered, Trump will probably issue a veto threat.

> [@](#):
>
> I have no freakin’ idea what you’re talking about.

Trump didn’t win because of the racists, that vote is already baked into every election since I’ve been alive. He won because of rust belt Democrats and independents flipping from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016. The rust belt didn’t suddenly become 10% more racist over the last 4 years.

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/330 "2016-12-07T14:11:46Z")

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> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> Yeah. You know, just like when I get sick, I don’t go to a doctor. I’ve had bad experience with them. Instead, I ask Uncle Jim-Bob for his opinion, and so far I’ve only lost two limbs.
> 
> Can you name a _single_ other situation where bringing in someone with _no fucking clue how to do the job_ is a good idea?

Juries, focus groups, reality TV…

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/331 "2016-12-07T14:21:27Z")

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> [@UberArchetype](#):
>
> The point you butthurt dems continue to willfully ignore is the fact that these so-called “Trumpisms” really only exist in the campaign-fueled, dirt-digging bullshit rhetoric your bitch and her minions stirred up over the past months. They are not real. They are paranoia-induced fantasies.

Which things aren’t real? The lies? Because he lied overtly and repeated throughout the campaign. The incompetence? We’re already seeing the fruits of that. The documented treatment of women? Go look up the word “documented”. The inexperience? _That’s why you voted for him_, according to you - because he wasn’t an experienced politician. So what’s not real?

> [@](#):
>
> OTOH, Billary’s well-documented scofflaw antics, political corruption and disdain for common sense, especially in terms of her more recent SoS debacles, have a long and storied history.

Much of which was manufactured by the right and has been thoroughly investigated. Which “SoS debacles” did you have in mind?

> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> It might just be me but I think Clothahump get a pretty large helping of flame every time he opens his mouth.

He does. And he usually deserves it. **Drunky Smurf** , however, has yet to post anything constructive and has been getting away with petty threadshitting with little comment for years. It’s only his recent escalation into much more blatant threadshitting that has finally attracted mod notice.

> [@](#):
>
> When stupid liberal posters post some stupid shit, we all pat him on the head and say “aww isn’t that cute”

Yeah, **Der Trihs** just gets ignored oh wait no he doesn’t. Confirmation bias is a harsh mistress.

> [@](#):
>
> On average the conservatives on this sit are more disciplined and thoughtful and rational than the average poster. They have to be to be take seriously. Any liberal idiot can get nods of approval on this site by bashing Republicans or conservatives.

…according to the conservatives on this site.

> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Hillary is a globalist and a corporatist.

Yes.

> [@](#):
>
> Her secret speeches confirm that she wants open borders and free trade.

Her speeches are not “secret”. They are “proprietary”. Those are not the same thing. But please continue with the “Lordy lordy!” act - it’s very entertaining.

> [@](#):
>
> Who knows what else is in those speeches.

The people who pay to hear them.

Just because I don’t have HBO doesn’t make GoT episodes “secret”.

> [@](#):
>
> A lot of people feel that our trade deals have harmed them.

Are a lot of people saying that?

> [@](#):
>
> Trump promised to renegotiate our trade deals putting workers first and corporate interests second. Trump promised to get ille\<script id=“gpt-impl-0.8100879358173412” src=“[https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads\_impl\_107.js](https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_107.js)”\>\</script\>gal immigration under control.

Trump promised a lot of things. Trump promised at once point to default on our national debt. Trump says what comes into his head in the same way someone with Tourette’s Syndrome does.

> [@](#):
>
> There are 11 million extra unskilled or low skilled workers in this country that are competing for manual labor jobs and driving down labor prices. Bernie wanted to renegotiate trade deals but was sympathetic to illegal immigrants but he would have done better than Hillary along this vector.
> 
> Hillary is cozy with the oligarchs and plutocrats, in that she sucks up to them and they give money to her foundation. A lot of people feel like the Democratic party under Hillary would be no worse than the Republicans in sucking up to those with wealth and power. Bernie had a recipe book ready for when we decide to eat the rich.
> 
> Hillary and her supporters cheated in the primary. A lot of people don’t like cheaters. If we knew she was a cheater during the primary, we might have nominated Bernie. Bernie could have beaten Trump (how in the world did Trump go from clown on November 7th to political genius on November 9th?).

Bernie would not have beaten Trump and here’s why: Americans react to the word “socialism” like the actors in Blackadder 3 react to the word “Macbeth”. It provokes instant and irrational paroxysms of hysteria. All the Republicans would have had to do was keep repeating the S-word and Bernie would have been toast.

Now Elizabeth Warren, on the other hand, would have been a different kettle of fish. I made the mistake of thinking at the start of this campaign that experience mattered. In hindsight, I think Warren would have done very well indeed.

> [@UberArchetype](#):
>
> Kinda like petulant teenagers, they just cannot ever admit they were wrong.

Interesting strategy you have here: say something incoherent and then when people go “What?” claim that you’ve won the argument. That must kill in debate club.

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/332 "2016-12-07T14:22:16Z")

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> [@septimus](#):
>
> It’s fun to see Trumpists at a complete loss when asked to explain their Neanderthal gruntings.
> 
> Here’s **octopus** , who made some stupid claim and, when asked for a cite, _finally_ gives in after obfuscating for several posts.  
> And here’s **UberArchetype** finally getting down to the specifics of his hopes from the Trump Presidency:

Yes Trump is horrible. We all get that and sometimes people prefer the devil we don’t know to the devil we do.

[quote]  
We do appreciate the great effort it must have taken to get this specific — a human body with an earthworm’s brain is cruel irony — but can you list the worst things Obama has done? To save you a Woormgle, I’ll list some  
[ul][li] The stock market indexes tripled under Obama. _(Under the short-fingered showman, they would have quadrupled.)_[/li][li] The unemployment rate, which shortly after the Bush Credit Crisis rose almost to its peak under Reagan, has since plummeted and is about as low as it was in 2000 at the height of the Clinton boom. _(Under the short-fingered showman, jobs would have been so good, we’d be importing [del]workers from Mexico[/del] supermodels approved by the Kremlin.)_[/li][/quote]

Yes Obama has been good for the economy. He isn’t allergic to mainstream economic thought (including Keynesianism and monetarism) and he pulled us back from an economic abyss while some Republicans wanted to boldly go where no man has gone before.

[quote]  
[li] With agreements like NAFTA lifting up all boats,[/li][/quote]

All boats???

> **[NAFTA's effect on United States employment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFTA%27s_effect_on_United_States_employment#Job_loss)**
>
> North American Free Trade Agreement's impact on United States employment has been the object of ongoing debate since the 1994 inception of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Canada and Mexico. NAFTA's proponents believe that more jobs were ultimately created in the USA. Opponents see the agreements as having been costly to well-paying American jobs.
> The economic impacts of NAFTA have been modest. In a 2015 report, the Congressional Research Service summarized multiple studies a...

“Certain states with heavy emphasis on manufacturing industries like Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and California were significantly affected by these job losses”

Remind me again which states flipped for Trump this year?

> [@](#):
>
> net immigration from Mexico is now _Negative_. _(Under the short-fingered showman, a giant Wall will keep those slaves in place?)_

At what cost?

> [@](#):
>
> [li] Obama has joined with Iraq, most of the Arab nations, Kurds and Turkey to oppose ISIS and its _de facto_ allies (using the ISIS threat to develop a stranglehold on the Levant) Putin and Assad. _(Under the short-fingered showman, the only priority in Syria would be building a TRUMP Hotel there.)_[/li][/ul]  
> Help me; what did I miss?

Perhaps they’ll blow up the hotel?

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**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/333 "2016-12-07T14:22:22Z")

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> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> I don’t think EVERYONE that supports Hillary thinks she is a Madonna but plenty do.

Well sure a substantial minority may have somehow convinced themselves of that. You always have people like that.

But you did NOT need to believe that to conclude she was a superior presidential choice over Trump, both on competence and on character, if your value set found Donald unacceptable on either grounds.

OTOH, neither does one need to buy into any of the BS horror stories about her to conclude she was a suboptimal CANDIDATE running at the head of the ticket.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/334 "2016-12-07T14:24:07Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Virtually no one aside from those that enjoy violence and tyranny likes the left’s “political violence and tyrannical traits”. I’ll assume that you also don’t like the right’s political violence and tyrannical traits.
> 
> Unless you’re saying that this stuff is present to some degree in the left, but not the right, then you’re saying something as trivial as “violence = bad”. If you’re saying that it’s only present in the left, then I have trouble taking such an assertion seriously.

Remind me again of the right wing riots in recent history?

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**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/335 "2016-12-07T14:26:08Z")

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> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Juries, focus groups, reality TV…

Situations where someone else is actually in charge, and giving direction to those members, sure. In fact, their ignorance is actually a plus for those purposes.

Any jobs where someone is actually going to be in charge of things?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/336 "2016-12-07T14:29:31Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> More support for the hypothesis that the Democrats lost the election because of the specific weakness of Hillary Clinton, not because of “identity politics” – NC transphobic governor McCrory lost the election, but Trump won NC. Support for trans rights (probably) _helped_, or at least didn’t hurt, the Democratic governor elect and hurt Republican McCrory.

Nothing was going to save McRory. He literally cost the state thousands of jobs over the transgender issue. One of the stupidest issues known to man.

He did not lose because of some overwhelming support for transgender issues.

In the states that Trump won, I think people were sick and tired of the focus on identity politics and culture wars. You really think pro-life people trusted Trump on that issue?

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**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/337 "2016-12-07T14:31:29Z")

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> [@k9bfriender](#):
>
> Situations where someone else is actually in charge, and giving direction to those members, sure. In fact, their ignorance is actually a plus for those purposes.
> 
> Any jobs where someone is actually going to be in charge of things?

I was answering the question as presented.

With that said, I don’t think Trump is going to much worse than any other Republican. More embarrassing? Sure. But not much worse (or at least that is what I tell myself every morning as I have my coffee).

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/338 "2016-12-07T14:41:00Z")

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> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Remind me again of the right wing riots in recent history?

Why? Do you think riots are the only type of violence in society? I think hate crimes count – Dylan Roof’s motives were political.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/339 "2016-12-07T14:44:28Z")

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> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> Nothing was going to save McRory. He literally cost the state thousands of jobs over the transgender issue. One of the stupidest issues known to man.
> 
> He did not lose because of some overwhelming support for transgender issues.
> 
> In the states that Trump won, I think people were sick and tired of the focus on identity politics and culture wars. You really think pro-life people trusted Trump on that issue?

McCrory barely lost. But considering how the race compared to the Presidential race, I think it’s clear that McCrory was hurt more than helped on the trans issue. So at the very least, pro-trans-rights is not at all a crippling political position to have, even in southern states.

And Hillary Clinton’s speeches and rhetoric were as much or more about economic and other non-culture-war/non-identity issues as they were about identity/culture. She lost because so many people couldn’t stand her, and she didn’t have much charisma, and (as I’ve said many times) too many Americans prioritized opposing bigotry as less important than opposing Hillary Clinton was.

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**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/340 "2016-12-07T15:09:34Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Why? Do you think riots are the only type of violence in society? I think hate crimes count – Dylan Roof’s motives were political.

If every crime motivated by distaste due to the victims gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion were tallied objectively what would the statistics look like broken down by party? Is that even practical or possible to measure? Riots are at least obvious.

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