# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/401 "2016-12-13T13:37:44Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > why not? Just because you have a biased view of the world **Budget Player Cadet**? > > If you really think that reasonable people cannot disagree on who is the greater evil between Hillary and Trump, then YOU are your own best example of unreasonable. > > YOU are part of why Trump got elected, YOU are part of why the Democrats put up such an unelectable candidate, YOU are part of why things are the way they are. > > this is the polar opposite of reasonable. > > YOU are the problem, whether you be liberal or conservative or libertarian, Green Party, Democrat, Republican, YOU specifically **Budget Player Cadet** are part of the problem and none of the solution. Bullshit. The ones responsible for the current mess we face are those who voted for Trump. Or who stayed home because Clinton did not make their nipples tingle–there were far too many of those. She still got more votes but should have gotten more. Yes, she was not the perfectly ideal candidate–but Your Idiot will damage the country. And possibly the world. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/402 "2016-12-13T13:50:41Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > why not? Just because you have a biased view of the world **Budget Player Cadet**? > > If you really think that reasonable people cannot disagree on who is the greater evil between Hillary and Trump, then YOU are your own best example of unreasonable. > > YOU are part of why Trump got elected, YOU are part of why the Democrats put up such an unelectable candidate, YOU are part of why things are the way they are. > > this is the polar opposite of reasonable. > > YOU are the problem, whether you be liberal or conservative or libertarian, Green Party, Democrat, Republican, YOU specifically **Budget Player Cadet** are part of the problem and none of the solution. No, the problem is the people that voted for Trump. The other problem is people like you who defend the people who voted for Trump. How is it that the people that voted for Clinton are being blamed for trump? Is this some sort of completely obscene cognitive dissonance? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/403 "2016-12-13T14:08:31Z")
That was always going to be the nature of the victory for whoever won: They would win because the other party made an unforced error, nominating a terrible candidate when better ones were available. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/404 "2016-12-13T14:16:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was always going to be the nature of the victory for whoever won: They would win because the other party made an unforced error, nominating a terrible candidate when better ones were available. Do you really think that if Clinton had won, all the Clinton voters would be crying and whining that it was Trumps fault we elected her? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/405 "2016-12-13T14:19:46Z")
I don’t know what Clinton supporters would say, but this Republican supporter would say we lost because we nominated Trump. And indeed, I do think we’d have won the popular vote easily with just about any other candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/406 "2016-12-13T14:30:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t trust anyone who says Hillary was the greater evil. It is an excuse. > > If you think he can fill his appointments with deniers and destroyers of their own agencies, then voting for him is an affirmative statement of something very negative. I don’t see Hillary as much more than their straw man. > > If they are watching him do it with disappointment then where are those voices? We haven’t heard one yet. It’s early but we’ve seen a lot of the cards in this hand already. What horrible thing has happened? Or are you just anticipating that horrible things will happen? Just for the record, if its something that would have happened under a Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz administration, then its not a Trump specific thing, its Republican specific thing. If you don’t want the Republican to win, then don’t nominate uncharismatic, corrupt, corporatist, globalist, plutocratic nominees. We fucked up by nominating Hillary because she convinced us it was her turn and almost everyone stepped aside for her. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/407 "2016-12-13T14:33:13Z")
[quote=“D\_Odds, post:392, topic:773291”] Those people are stupid. Dangerously stupid. And if they still believe that after the appointments and the China fiasco, they are so fucking stupid I’m surprised that their autonomous nervous system remembers to keep their heart beating and the ignoramus breathing.[/qute] China fiasco? :dubious: Is China going to invade or something? Are they going to cut off diplomatic relations? Maybe they will stop selling us cheap clothing and electronics. > [@](#): > > No. Anyone who would make that argument is unreasonable, or whatever the word would be that means immune to reason. I _might_ be convinced it was a reasonable argument if that was used to compare Clinton to Bush or Christie, and possibly many of the other primary candidates. But against Trump, no fucking way. He proved it before the election, he proves it daily, and middle America fucked themselves up the ass with their insane, mostly (but not totally) unfounded Clinton hatred. I think you’re being unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/408 "2016-12-13T14:34:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t know what Clinton supporters would say, but this Republican supporter would say we lost because we nominated Trump. And indeed, I do think we’d have won the popular vote easily with just about any other candidate. I doubt that. Clinton’s biggest mistake in the campaign was letting Trump speak as much as he did. She thought, and we all thought, really, the more he spoke, the more damage he did to himself. Her strategy was to hand him a shovel, and let him dig. We were all wrong on that point. If she had been against a bush or rubio or kasich, they would have had policy debates and such, with I am sure some level of mud slinging, but the negativity would be the background to the discussion, not the discussion itself. There would be actual policy positions and party platforms to decide between, not just voting based on cult of personality. Would she have won then? I think so, but it would have been a completely different campaign in all ways, so it is pretty hard to tell how things would have played out in woulda shoulda coulda world. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/409 "2016-12-13T14:40:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > China fiasco? :dubious: > Is China going to invade or something? Are they going to cut off diplomatic relations? Maybe they will stop selling us cheap clothing and electronics. They wouldn’t stop selling to us, we give them way too much money. They would just raise the prices. Even if they bumped up the price of their exported goods by as much as 50%, they would still be cheaper than making them here, but now you are paying more for your “cheap” clothing and electronics. (I do kinda wonder where you get off thinking that an iphone is a “cheap” electronic, or that Prada and Armani are “cheap” clothes.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/410 "2016-12-13T14:47:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Clinton’s biggest mistake in the campaign was letting Trump speak as much as he did. How was she supposed to stop him from speaking during the campaign? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/411 "2016-12-13T14:56:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How was she supposed to stop him from speaking during the campaign? > > Regards, > Shodan Considering that her ads were mostly just him speaking, she could have stopped that and took away a free platform she was providing him to get his message of hate out. She didn’t counter alot of his statements, thinking that the vitriol that came from him would turn people off on its own, with no response needed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/412 "2016-12-13T15:02:31Z")
> [@Lucky\_Mike](#): > > I respect your very thoughtful notion. You are a gentleperson and worthy of respect so i hope you do not take my response the wrong way. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Evil is NOT relative. Right and wrong is. Good and bad is. Up and down is. > > Now, I know, we have taught moral relativism (with which I agree) for many years. But, moral relativism is about right and wrong based on a set of principles as espoused by an ideology or cultural way of life. > > THAT, is relative. > > Evil, is not. > > Evil is the EXTREME intentional, malicious and debilitating harm of others without regard to their suffering. Look, if I pass a law to make sure you have to card people under 21 for drinking, then I have caused harm. But, it is not extreme, it is not malicious and it is not debilitating. A kid cannot take a drink… debatable, arguable, but not extreme harm. > > Anyone, and I mean anyone in the US, (besides a child who was hypothetically raped by Hillary Clinton) has no right to call Clinton Evil. She has done things that people may say are wrong. She has done things that people may say are bad. She has gone up, when people say she should have gone down. But NO ONE has any evidence she committed evil to US citizens (foreign countries have a lot of beefs with the US I am sure on the evil scale, but that is a discussion for a different day). > > Evil is something different. > > Honestly, I am not sure if Hillary has committed evil, I am not omniscient. Evil can be relative to other evil. Hence the notion of Hillary being a greater evil than Trump. If you have no gauge of the evil that Hillary represents, then how can you make a comparison? > [@](#): > > But, I do know, that grabbing women by the pussy because you are powerful and they defer to your stardom IS the definition of evil. No, no its not. First, Trump didn’t say he actually grabbed women by the hoohah, he said he could because women will let you do these things because you are famous and they are willing to let you do it because they want to be associated with you. Is paying a prostitute the definition of evil? It seems analogous. Noone starves or gets put out on the street because they don’t let Donald Trump grab their pussy. They theoretically would let him do it because they think it will help them become famous too. > [@](#): > > You have inflicted extreme harm (sexual assault) on another, you bragged about it as if you were all powerful over them (malicious), and you had no care about the potential effects this had on them. They don’t have to defer to him. If they do, they do it because they stand to gain something. If your livelihood depends on letting men have their way with you, then you are a form of prostitute. > [@](#): > > I challenge anyone to present any statement by Hillary Clinton where she declared, outright, she could assault a member of the US citizenry without repercussion. Could Hillary have said she “grabs men by the dick” and make them subject to her will and get the same people to applaud? Hell no, and for good reason. Hillary thinks that the rules that apply to others do not apply to her? Hillary has a well deserved reputation for being nasty vindictive and mean. I have friends in New York who endorsed Obama in 2008 when Hillary was the senator from New York. Hillary and her political machine destroyed their political lives in retaliation. Maybe that’s not evil but its pretty shitty. And women don’t brag about grabbing men’s dicks. Its just one of those cultural things. > [@](#): > > Trump HAS committed evil. He has personally ADMITTED to evil. He actually CELEBRATES his evil. He admitted to grabbing someone’s pussy? Who? Your definition of evil seems to be tailored to includes “stuff Trump has done and aid” > [@](#): > > I used a quote in a previous post about evil triumphing when good men do nothing. But the truth is, that throughout history, good men and women have fought and died to give us the right to elect people in the method we have chosen. Good people gave us a chance to choose and we chose a satirical joke. A serial liar. A person who embodies everything we despise (for god’s sake he literally gave his interview after the election from a gold throne in a tower… holy fuck can 60 million Americans not see?). Gold throne? > [@](#): > > Look, I get it. People don’t like gays. I know. People don’t like immigrants. I know. People are scared of change. I know. People do not like social programs. I know. People,for some reason, want tax cuts which benefit less than 10% of Americans (check it out, seriously, if you do not believe me. Almost 1/2 of Americans pay NO federal taxes and a significant number of them voted for Trump citing their concerns about federal taxes… WTF?!) > > But, not matter how you feel, you do not elect Trump. You just don’t. He is a joke, a satire, a fucking punchline. Not a president. Almost half the country disagrees with you. [quote] In the end though, he won not because he had the majority. He did not win because he had anything significant to offer. He won because good people failed to act. [/quote he won because he was running against Hillary and people thought she was the greater evil. > [@](#): > > Evil triumphed because good people fought and died to give us freedom, then some pieces of shit decided to stay home and lap up the freedom without doing anything about it. Even if it was as simple as voting (exempting those who did not get to vote because of voter suppression), they still could not be arsed to do it. Voter turnout was not down in the swing states. Who gives a shit if voter turnout was down in deep red or deep blue states? Some people think that an evil greater evil would have triumphed if Hillary had won. About half in fact. > [@](#): > > FUCK THEM, I am tired of carrying their torch. > > I seriously hope Trump carries out his plans. I want him to. Maybe, just maybe, people will wake the fuck up then and realize his rhetoric has meaning. Or better yet, you’re wrong about him and he doesn’t tank the country. > [@](#): > > If he does not, and we coast by with 4-8 years of this, then wooooo boy, strap in for some crazy ass elections as every kitchen sink moron comes out. > > I am going to watch Idiocracy now, because in that movie there is a happy ending. President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Hector Camacho at least recognized his idiocy and deferred to some else. Trump gets on television and says his intelligence community sucks and he is smart and does not need their briefings. > > …brought to you by Carl’s Jr. > > …whose president is now going to be the Secretary of Labor. > > … You cannot make this shit up man. Why would being a businessman disqualify you from anything? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/413 "2016-12-13T15:05:25Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > My view of the world is based on extensive research. Simply dismissing it as “biased” is weak sauce. There is no reasonable disagreement here. Every indication shows that Trump is a terrible person. He is almost certainly a narcissist. A lot of presidential candidates are narcissists. You don’t think Hillary is a narcissist? > [@](#): > > He has no regard for the truth. He has admitted to sexually assaulting multiple people. In a field of people vying for the most important job on the planet, he stands out as an egomaniac (seriously, think about how hard you have to try to appear egomanaiacal in a group of people who think they should run the greatest superpower on earth!). He called for the execution of a group of exonerated teenagers for an alleged rape they didn’t commit. He probably assaulted his ex-wife. And now he’s showing utter contempt for the weight of responsibility he has, throwing world affairs into chaos, and bringing racists, conspiracy theorists, and white supremacists into the highest levels of government. > > What’s Clinton done, huh? Flubbed a disaster relief effort? Made a difficult call as secretary of state? Unless you start reaching for the insane conspiracy theories, there’s not a reasonable argument to be made. Clinton is not as bad of a person as Trump. That’s only because you minimize all of her faults and magnify all of his. Even without this distortion, I agree that Trump is a worse person than Hillary but if you don’t care about minority rights, he is not much worse than other Republicans we have had in the past. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/414 "2016-12-13T15:19:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They wouldn’t stop selling to us, we give them way too much money. > > They would just raise the prices. Even if they bumped up the price of their exported goods by as much as 50%, they would still be cheaper than making them here, but now you are paying more for your “cheap” clothing and electronics. Why aren’t they doing that already? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/415 "2016-12-13T15:29:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A lot of presidential candidates are narcissists. > > You don’t think Hillary is a narcissist? > > That’s only because you minimize all of her faults and magnify all of his. Even without this distortion, I agree that Trump is a worse person than Hillary but if you don’t care about minority rights, he is not much worse than other Republicans we have had in the past. Where did you get this silly idea that it isn’t possible for one candidate to be much worse than the other, that there is some sort of “Universal Political Balance Law” out there that justifies fence-sitting? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/416 "2016-12-13T15:50:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Why aren’t they doing that already? They are currently manipulating their currency in ways that actually makes items manufactured in China less expensive. This drives out their competition in the US. It makes it harder for us to keep that manufacturing here. Just like they dumped rare earths and got us to shut down our rare earth mines, dumped steel and got us to shut down our steel foundries, they dump manufactured goods to get us to shut down our manufacturing. If they raise prices, that encourages the US to start moving jobs either back, or to another developing country. Either way, or if we continue to get products from China at the new higher rates, it will cost more to purchase these “cheap” good that we currently take for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/417 "2016-12-13T16:57:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They wouldn’t stop selling to us, we give them way too much money. > > They would just raise the prices. Even if they bumped up the price of their exported goods by as much as 50%, they would still be cheaper than making them here, but now you are paying more for your “cheap” clothing and electronics. If they could do that, why the fuck aren’t they doing it already? > [@](#): > > (I do kinda wonder where you get off thinking that an iphone is a “cheap” electronic, or that Prada and Armani are “cheap” clothes.) Are you under the impression that some significant portion of China’s exports to the USA are Iphones, Prada and Armani? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/418 "2016-12-13T17:15:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If they could do that, why the fuck aren’t they doing it already? They are currently manipulating their currency in ways that actually makes items manufactured in China less expensive. This drives out their competition in the US. It makes it harder for us to keep that manufacturing here. Just like they dumped rare earths and got us to shut down our rare earth mines, dumped steel and got us to shut down our steel foundries, they dump manufactured goods to get us to shut down our manufacturing. If they raise prices, that encourages the US to start moving jobs either back, or to another developing country. Either way, or if we continue to get products from China at the new higher rates, it will cost more to purchase these “cheap” good that we currently take for granted. > [@](#): > > Are you under the impression that some significant portion of China’s exports to the USA are Iphones, Prada and Armani? Are you under the impression that a significant portion of iphones, armani and prada are made in the US? That was just a very short list of all the things that are made in China. Do you not get that they have far more manufacturing capability than we do now? Do you not get that we are importing much more from China than we are exporting? Do you not get that there are other markets for Chinese goods, including the growing middle class of China itself? At this point, we need them more than they need us, and they know it. We need to know this too, or we may make stupid decisions based on the idea that the stuff we import from china is just cheap electronics and clothing, rather than just about everything we use in our daily lives. You said “maybe the would stop selling us cheap clothing and electronics” as in trying to imply that everything made in china is cheap. This is not true at all, and believing such stupid things is what gets us into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/419 "2016-12-13T17:26:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was always going to be the nature of the victory for whoever won: They would win because the other party made an unforced error, nominating a terrible candidate when better ones were available. So, who were these ‘better candidates’ on the Dem side? Bernie Sand[del]inista[/del]ers? The GOP had a book on him that makes what they had on Hillary look trivial. By the time they were done with him, we’d be thinking better of Michael Dukakis. Martin O’Malley? Didn’t exactly excite anybody, did he? Joe Biden? There were reasons he didn’t move the needle much the two times he ran for President. And like it or not, due to his son’s death, he wasn’t really available. Elizabeth Warren, _maybe_ - but is there any evidence that she felt ready to run this time? Hell, who were these ‘better candidates’ on the GOP side, for that matter? Given the way Trump dismantled the lot of them, I have to believe he _was_ their best candidate. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/420 "2016-12-13T17:49:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What horrible thing has happened? > > Or are you just anticipating that horrible things will happen? > > Just for the record, if its something that would have happened under a Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz administration, then its not a Trump specific thing, its Republican specific thing. If you don’t want the Republican to win, then don’t nominate uncharismatic, corrupt, corporatist, globalist, plutocratic nominees. We fucked up by nominating Hillary because she convinced us it was her turn and almost everyone stepped aside for her. You’re putting words in my mouth. He does something every day to convince he is the worst prospect we have ever had. Aren’t you watching? Nominating Hillary happened. Get over it. Like stages of grief or whatever. She was only this bad in hindsight, which means put a lid on the pot about how horrible she was. Large political parties do these kinds of things. Unless you have psychic powers and want to lord it out over other people, start looking outward at what we _ **have** _ got. You anticipate that bad things are not going to happen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=22)