# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/681 "2016-12-23T23:58:11Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > To effectively “connect” with a large electorate via available media, a candidate must have either a strong combination of two concentrations of effort or an overwhelming advantage against their opponents regarding one or the other: 1) a facility to communicate emotionally, including the ability to frame positions within simple concepts that resonate with a target audience that is itself large enough and involved enough to sway an election, and 2) an audience that is already primed in the paradigmatic or mythological structures and institutional biases underlying the positions and rhetoric of the candidate. > > The Republicans can enjoy the fruits of literally decades of very skillful work shoring up their advantage in the second concentration. And they have at least a parity with the Democrats in the first. In fact, broad or deep comprehension of complex issues may actually hinder a candidate’s ability to ‘connect’ with an increasingly less engaged and impatient electorate unless that candidate can subvert her/his tendencies toward accuracy and completeness. Which conveys a disadvantage for Democrats. > > Candidates like WJC and BHO who can exhibit deep knowledge but also that ability to connect are pretty rare. Candidates like HRC are also rare, but are more common within the Democratic bullpen, and can be cultivated more readily. I worry that any preoccupation with finding charismatic figures tends to reinforce the neglect shown by the Democratic Party on a national level for the nitty gritty full-time work of organizing and communicating. > > Even if we can continue to find the rare camera-ready ‘connectors’ who can excite the base and attract the vacillators, the best result is a few highly popular Dems within a majority GOP government. And we often handicap our successful ‘connectors’ through infighting between pragmatists and the purists who are dissatisfied because such candidates are necessarily inclusive of opposing ideological considerations. > > We have to do the hard work at the grassroots level and stop looking for heroes and paladins on the national level. I agree with all of this, though I’m worried charisma is no longer a bonus, and more of a necessity, in presidential politics. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/682 "2016-12-24T00:46:11Z")
If she had won no one would be saying any of this stuff, so isn’t this all hindsight and mundane know it allism? She was definitely blindsided by the social media factors. It’s never been so relentless. Did anyone here predict that, and don the con, and the medias falling helpless at his feet? The dems didn’t either. Is that really so special? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/683 "2016-12-26T02:21:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Jesus. I think we’re done here. I’ve said over and over again that she sucks and deserves a lot of blame. I’m just saying that there’s more to this story, but you’re not interested in it. So we’ll just have to disagree – you think nothing significant happened more than “Hillary sucks”, and I think that happened plus a lot of other significant things happened. > > I hope the Democrats consider all the possibilities and not just that we had a bad candidate. Sure, there are always things to consider. Mostly don’t pick shitty candidates. If we get that part nailed down I think most of the rest just kind of falls into place. Jimmy Carter could have won this goddam election!!! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/684 "2016-12-26T02:28:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > If she had won no one would be saying any of this stuff, so isn’t this all hindsight and mundane know it allism? Its closer to “you fucking lied to me-ism” You told me to vote for Hillary the corrupt cheating plutocrat because Trump is horrible and even though Bernie would probably win, Hillary was a sure thing. A sure thing. So we took one look at Trump and sighed in resignation and pulled the lever for Hillary and told ourselves that at least we would finally have a woman in the white house and she certainly seemed competent, smart and hard-working and perhaps that’s enough. Then she fucking lost. THEN, the “ready for Hillary” crowd started making up ridiculous fucking excuse after ridiculous fucking excuse (The russian mafia fer crissakes:smack::dubious::rolleyes::eek::mad::smack::smack::smack:). > [@](#): > > She was definitely blindsided by the social media factors. It’s never been so relentless. Did anyone here predict that, and don the con, and the medias falling helpless at his feet? Not sure what you mean by that exactly but most of the media was in the bag for Hillary. Most of the Trump coverage was not flattering to the pussy grabber. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/685 "2016-12-26T02:46:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its closer to “you fucking lied to me-ism” > > You told me to vote for Hillary the corrupt cheating plutocrat because Trump is horrible and even though Bernie would probably win, Hillary was a sure thing. > > A sure thing. So we took one look at Trump and sighed in resignation and pulled the lever for Hillary and told ourselves that at least we would finally have a woman in the white house and she certainly seemed competent, smart and hard-working and perhaps that’s enough. > > Then she fucking lost. > > THEN, the “ready for Hillary” crowd started making up ridiculous fucking excuse after ridiculous fucking excuse (The russian mafia fer crissakes:smack::dubious::rolleyes::eek::mad::smack::smack::smack:). > > Not sure what you mean by that exactly but most of the media was in the bag for Hillary. Most of the Trump coverage was not flattering to the pussy grabber. Who the hell are you talking to when you say someone told you to vote a certain way? Are you mentally helpless? Why are you blaming someone else for your vote. Man shut up and deal with it. You know exactly what I’m talking about when I mention the pervasion of social media on the election. Don’t be an intellectually dishonest ass. So she lost and they told you she wouldn’t? They broke their promise to you? It didn’t turn out the way they told you? Oh so sad. Poor little thing. And then they have the temerity to talk about the factors at play, and not just agree with you completely that this woman was “soooooo bad!!!”? The fucking nerve. The media was in the bag for bloah blah blah? What does that even mean? To deny social media, racism, nativism, the alt right, reality TV, the russians, the unique phenomenon of donald? You’re just being a tool of something. Can’t say exactly what just yet. Where is the intelligent discussion? This is just an internet shit stir. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/686 "2016-12-26T03:04:44Z")
Damuri Ajashi wrote: “Most of the Trump coverage was not flattering to the pussy grabber.” And, to his core constituentcies, that _helped_ rather than hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/687 "2016-12-26T06:51:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I am just vehemently opposing all the folks on the left that want to blind themselves to the fact that Hillary was the primary cause of her own loss. This sort of echo chamber thinking that lays off the blame on a series of bogiemen is just a bunch of “ready for hillary” types that don’t want to admit that nominating her was a mistake. They want to say that nominating her wasn’t a mistake it was all these OTHER factors that were beyond her control that was the reason why she lost. And this sort of break from reality will keep coming back to fuck us in election after election unless we learn from this. …Donald Trump defeated Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Ben Carlson, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore and Rick Santorum all before he defeated Hillary Clinton. And Trump would have rolled over Bernie Sanders as well. I’m not a “Hillary” type. I can’t even vote in your stupid election. I’m not even in the United States. So don’t accuse me of being in an “echo chamber.” I’ve taken plenty of time to stand back and look at this thing with the emotional detachment that you are incapable of doing. And here is what is obvious. You are living in the past. And if Trump wins the next election it is going to be because of people like you. Trump won because his campaign realised a truth that allowed Trump to tell bold-faced lies with zero consequence. And unless you get with the programme and figure out what they did they are going to do it all over again. Trump defeated the best the Republicans could throw at him and the best (yes: Hillary had a better chance of winning than Bernie) the Democrats could throw as well. You can scream and shout and yell “She was running against Donald fucking Trump” as much as you like: but everybody lost to Trump this year. Every single fucking person lost to Trump. He steamrolled his way to the US Presidency. If you want to ignore why he was such a successful candidate (and you are dismissing those reasons to express your hatred of Clinton) then you are going to loose again next time. Yes: Hillary lost, and most of us have gotten over it. Now its time for you to get the fuck over it. The people of the world are very disappointed that America couldn’t get its shit together to keep Trump out of office. So sort your shit out. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/688 "2016-12-26T06:56:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Moderating] > Telling other posters to fuck themselves is a violation of the Pit’s language rules. Please avoid this in the future. > > No warning issued. > [/Moderating] For future reference: Is it permitted to tell Trump supporters to “commit an unspecified but grotesque anatomically-impossible act”? If accompanied with “Please”? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/689 "2016-12-26T07:10:30Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > This whole “Hillary was an especially bad candidate” bullshit hasn’t gotten any less bullshittier between **DA** ’s incessant trumpeting and **iiandyiiii** ’s acceptance of it ‘just with some other causes please.’… > Looking for charismatic Presidential candidates instead of working to rebuild a strong party in every state is a recipe for more electoral disaster. There was nothing wrong with our 2016 candidate and a whole lot of things that were very right. Yes. Are the Democrats supposed to nominate Beyoncé, Bruno Mars (he’ll be 35 in 2020), Big Bird from Sesame Street? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think Hillary turned out to be a bad candidate, but on the level of Gore and Kerry (who were both pretty shitty), not some unbelievable worst-candidate-in-history… Gore was a sincere smart man who ran against an ignorant liar and lost in part because of the lying accusation that he claimed to have invented the Internet. Kerry was a Vietnam War hero who ran against a war malingerer and lost mainly because of the lie that Kerry, not Bush, was the malingerer. Clinton is a sincere statesman with a Foundation to advance commendable worldwide causes who ran against an ignorant buffoon/scamster whose own Foundation is a scam. She lost due to lies. _ **Lies, lies, lies.** _ The lies were promulgated by the mainstream media. Right-wing dolts complain that the mainstream media has a liberal basis — we centrists and rational thinkers only _wish_ that were true! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/690 "2016-12-27T16:24:39Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Your statement is basically that the cite has no meaning. That’s pretty cynical. Stupid isn’t black and white. It’s gray. Lighter and darker shades. I’m saying that the cite applies to both sides. Perhaps not equally, but in large enough measure in both sides that its the pot calling the kettle black. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/691 "2016-12-27T16:35:59Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > This whole “Hillary was an especially bad candidate” bullshit hasn’t gotten any less bullshittier between **DA** ’s incessant trumpeting and **iiandyiiii** ’s acceptance of it ‘just with some other causes please.’ > > Mrs. Clinton was the most highly qualified candidate we’ve had in generations, and one of the least objectively dishonest. Like I said previously, Washington DC is almost wall to wall highly qualified, smart hard-working, people with better policy chops than any politician but they never run for office, because politicians offer something these policy wonks cannot. The ability to get elected and put some of those policies into practice. If you can’t get elected, you are not a good candidate. We thought Hillary could get elected, but it turns out that her main POLTICAL strength was that she is married to Bill Clinton. > [@](#): > > But she is not charismatic, and she is not a natural campaigner. And the reality of the 2016 general election campaign is that she needed to have been exceptional at campaigning and extraordinarily charismatic, because the political reporting was heavily stacked against her and the electorate has been trained away from complexity and independent thought. Both left and right (even if more so on the right). Candidates are worthless if they can’t win elections without cheating. Are you seriously trying to argue that the media left right and center were all in favor of Hillary? I’ve never seen Fox news be so critical of a Republican candidate since their inception and they were the kindest and gentlest towards Trump. > [@](#): > > Looking for charismatic Presidential candidates instead of working to rebuild a strong party in every state is a recipe for more electoral disaster. There was nothing wrong with our 2016 candidate and a whole lot of things that were very right. Our 2016 candidate was the suck. You are the reason why I keep up this tirade against Hillary because people keep wanting to say it wasn’t her fault. Trump was supposed to roll over and die and he didn’t stick to the script. So its Trump’s fault. Or it was the racists. Or it was the Russians. Or it was Comey’s investigation of her emails. Or it was the Bernie Bros. Or it was the misogynists. Or it was fucking anything, anything, just don’t blame Hillary, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/692 "2016-12-27T16:37:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think that’s going too far the other way as well. I think Hillary turned out to be a bad candidate, but on the level of Gore and Kerry (who were both pretty shitty), not some unbelievable worst-candidate-in-history. The Democrats should recognize we need a candidate with some ability to connect, and not a garbage truck full of baggage (whether that baggage is fictional or not). Are you saying that Gore and Kerry could not have beaten Donald Bobblehead Trump? Seriously? You mean that or are you just “normalizing” how much Hillary sucked? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/693 "2016-12-27T16:39:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you saying that Gore and Kerry could not have beaten Donald Bobblehead Trump? > > Seriously? You mean that or are you just “normalizing” how much Hillary sucked? I don’t know. I think Gore and Kerry made big mistakes similar to the ones Hillary made – mainly not pouring resources into the right states. But I don’t think you’re capable of looking at this objectively, so I may not spend any more time engaging with you on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/694 "2016-12-27T16:47:06Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Candidates like HRC are also rare, but are more common within the Democratic bullpen, and can be cultivated more readily. What is it about Hillary that you think is rare that is not a function of her association with WJC by marriage? I can point to half a dozen union leaders, bureaucrats, think tanks types, lobbyists and NGO activists who are at least as hard working, competent and intelligent as HRC, these base abilities are not rare, just go to any political club at any good university and you will find someone that can be cultivated into someone with almost equal ability. HRC is not rare and is she had never married WJC, she would be a law partner somewhere making a million or two somewhere doing some pro bono work from time to time and donating a lot of money to good and worthy causes. There’s almost avenue on the east side of Manhattan that is lousy with people just like that. > [@](#): > > I worry that any preoccupation with finding charismatic figures tends to reinforce the neglect shown by the Democratic Party on a national level for the nitty gritty full-time work of organizing and communicating. I’d settle for someone that’s almost exactly like hillary except not corrupt, sold out to the plutocracy or such a bad campaigner. > [@](#): > > Even if we can continue to find the rare camera-ready ‘connectors’ who can excite the base and attract the vacillators, the best result is a few highly popular Dems within a majority GOP government. And we often handicap our successful ‘connectors’ through infighting between pragmatists and the purists who are dissatisfied because such candidates are necessarily inclusive of opposing ideological considerations. We have a large tent. But don’t worry, we seem to be pushing out as many people as quickly as we can. > [@](#): > > We have to do the hard work at the grassroots level and stop looking for heroes and paladins on the national level. We can do both. And frankly we don’t need heroes. We just need someone who is like Hillary but without the suck. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/695 "2016-12-27T16:54:26Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > And then they have the temerity to talk about the factors at play, and not just agree with you completely that this woman was “soooooo bad!!!”? The fucking nerve. That’s right, they should shut the fuck up for the next 4 years or so, go into a fucking corner and think about what they’ve done to this country because they were so fucking ready for Hillary. > [@](#): > > The media was in the bag for bloah blah blah? What does that even mean? To deny social media, racism, nativism, the alt right, reality TV, the russians, the unique phenomenon of donald? You’re just being a tool of something. Can’t say exactly what just yet. Please name a mainstream media outlet that was wholeheartedly supportive of Trump, even Fox was mealymouthed about it until almost the end of the election. > [@](#): > > Where is the intelligent discussion? This is just an internet shit stir. This is like trying to have an intelligent discussion about the why the sun rises in the east with flat earthers. Until you accept the basic premise that the earth is round, you are going to keep coming up with stupid retarded rationales like the Russian Mafia. Until, you recognize that the reason we lost is because of a shitload of things that Hillary did wrong we are never going to be able to dissect exactly what she did wrong. I mean fer crissakes. The OP is about racism being the reason why half a dozens states flipped from Barack “I’m a black product of miscegeny” Hussein Obama (Halal and made in Kenya) to Donald Bobblehead Trump. Are you fucking kidding me? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/696 "2016-12-27T17:05:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …Donald Trump defeated Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Ben Carlson, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore and Rick Santorum all before he defeated Hillary Clinton. And Trump would have rolled over Bernie Sanders as well. > > I’m not a “Hillary” type. I can’t even vote in your stupid election. I’m not even in the United States. So don’t accuse me of being in an “echo chamber.” > > I’ve taken plenty of time to stand back and look at this thing with the emotional detachment that you are incapable of doing. And here is what is obvious. You are living in the past. And if Trump wins the next election it is going to be because of people like you. Trump won because his campaign realised a truth that allowed Trump to tell bold-faced lies with zero consequence. And unless you get with the programme and figure out what they did they are going to do it all over again. I have it figured out. Trump won because hillary lost. Its that fucking simple. Hillary lost because she was a weak candidate to begin with then she ran a shitty campaign. > [@](#): > > Trump defeated the best the Republicans could throw at him and the best Trump won the Republican primary because he threw away the dog whistle and picked up a megaphone and the Republican base came out for him. In most years this would have been general election suicide but not this year because he was running against Hillary. > [@](#): > > (yes: Hillary had a better chance of winning than Bernie) cite? Because i can cite a few polls that showed bernie doing better than hillary in a one on one against Trump. What do you have? Are you relying on instinct? > [@](#): > > the Democrats could throw as well. You can scream and shout and yell “She was running against Donald fucking Trump” as much as you like: but everybody lost to Trump this year. Every single fucking person lost to Trump. He steamrolled his way to the US Presidency. If you want to ignore why he was such a successful candidate (and you are dismissing those reasons to express your hatred of Clinton) then you are going to loose again next time. He won the primary because he was running in a field with 17 candidates and you can win states with 20% of the vote. You can get 20% of the vote in a Republican primary by saying nigger in your stump speech three or four time, or in Trumps case talk about how illegal Mexicans are rapists and murderers and registering the muslims. By the end, it was too late to save the Republican party from the frankenstein they had created. He beat Hillary because she sucked. > [@](#): > > Yes: Hillary lost, and most of us have gotten over it. Now its time for you to get the fuck over it. The people of the world are very disappointed that America couldn’t get its shit together to keep Trump out of office. So sort your shit out. I am fully aware that hillary lost. I am trying to fight the ignorance of the ready for Hillary crowd who refuse to acknowledge that hillary lost. They blame shit like the russian mafia fer crissakes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/697 "2016-12-27T17:12:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes. Are the Democrats supposed to nominate Beyoncé, Bruno Mars (he’ll be 35 in 2020), Big Bird from Sesame Street? How about Bernie, or Biden, or even fucking Rendell? Or are the only option Bird Bird, Beyonce or Hillary? > [@](#): > > Gore was a sincere smart man who ran against an ignorant liar and lost in part because of the lying accusation that he claimed to have invented the Internet. Gore lost because he didn’t use the Clinton’s effectively. > [@](#): > > Kerry was a Vietnam War hero who ran against a war malingerer and lost mainly because of the lie that Kerry, not Bush, was the malingerer. Kerry lost because Karl Rove and the neocons were satan’s spawn. > [@](#): > > Clinton is a sincere statesman with a Foundation to advance commendable worldwide causes who ran against an ignorant buffoon/scamster whose own Foundation is a scam. She lost due to lies. Hillary lost because she is a cheating plutocrat whose foundation was used by people (not her as far as we know but a culture of corruption frequently comes from the top) for personal profit. We will see if the foundation was a proxy for “pay for play” if they start withering on the vine now that the Clinton’s political power and prospects have diminished. If people like the Keystone XL ipeline folks keep contributing to the foundation, we will know that they were just donating to a worthy cause. If the donations shrivel up , we will know that it was probably, at least in part, pay for play. > [@](#): > > _ **Lies, lies, lies.** _ The lies were promulgated by the mainstream media. Right-wing dolts complain that the mainstream media has a liberal basis — we centrists and rational thinkers only _wish_ that were true! If you don’t think the media was tilted against Trump and Bush jr. then you might not be as rational and centrist as you think you are. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/698 "2016-12-27T18:06:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you don’t think the media was tilted against Trump and Bush jr. then you might not be as rational and centrist as you think you are. That you _don’t_ think the media coverage was tilted against Hillary Clinton -and appear to think that would necessarily mean ‘tilted in favor of’ whoever she was running against- shows that you’re not worth listening to as a political analyst. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/699 "2016-12-27T18:38:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That’s right, they should shut the fuck up for the next 4 years or so, go into a fucking corner and think about what they’ve done to this country because they were so fucking ready for Hillary. > > Please name a mainstream media outlet that was wholeheartedly supportive of Trump, even Fox was mealymouthed about it until almost the end of the election. > > This is like trying to have an intelligent discussion about the why the sun rises in the east with flat earthers. Until you accept the basic premise that the earth is round, you are going to keep coming up with stupid retarded rationales like the Russian Mafia. > > Until, you recognize that the reason we lost is because of a shitload of things that Hillary did wrong we are never going to be able to dissect exactly what she did wrong. > > I mean fer crissakes. The OP is about racism being the reason why half a dozens states flipped from Barack “I’m a black product of miscegeny” Hussein Obama (Halal and made in Kenya) to Donald Bobblehead Trump. Are you fucking kidding me? Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post "…Donald Trump defeated Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Ben Carlson, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore and Rick Santorum all before he defeated Hillary Clinton. And Trump would have rolled over Bernie Sanders as well. I’m not a “Hillary” type. I can’t even vote in your stupid election. I’m not even in the United States. So don’t accuse me of being in an “echo chamber.” I’ve taken plenty of time to stand back and look at this thing with the emotional detachment that you are incapable of doing. And here is what is obvious. You are living in the past. And if Trump wins the next election it is going to be because of people like you. Trump won because his campaign realised a truth that allowed Trump to tell bold-faced lies with zero consequence. And unless you get with the programme and figure out what they did they are going to do it all over again." QFT You are irrational at this point. Trump got away with behaviors that would have sunk any democratic candidate, and it happened over and over again. In that respect the whole media was complicit. There were also many fox hosts that provided him with air time and cover and support, and they would “explain” him so that people could still go on supporting him after each gaffe. In fact trumpsplaining became the main enterprise of the media as a whole for a year. That’s the way the media works. They make things make sense every day no matter what the fuck happens. What universe are you in? This OP is not about racism. Go back and read it. You are making very small points with your teaspoon while there are buckets of information coming at you from everywhere that you are ignoring. This is why you appear to be in the tank somehow. The idea that anyone should shut up and go back to a corner for four years right now, when we are going to have pres donald, is stupid, risible and irresponsible. It could only be said by someone who at some level wants donald to be unchecked and unlimited as president. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/700 "2016-12-27T19:16:15Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Mrs. Clinton was the most highly qualified candidate we’ve had in generations, What makes her more qualified than GHWB, McCain, Gore, or Kerry? > [@drad\_dog](#): > > If she had won no one would be saying any of this stuff, so isn’t this all hindsight and mundane know it allism? That Hillary is reflexively hated by half of America was a common concern in lefty discussion, going back to before the 2008 primaries. The common defense was that her negatives were “baked in” and anyone who hated her wouldn’t vote for a Democrat, anyway. To the extent that a good politician must be popular the fact that Hillary is a bad politician is tautological. Perhaps this wouldn’t apply to Hillary in a platonic America, where reason and cool logic prevails, but running her in real America was always courting disaster. That the only other viable candidate was an independent socialist who was polling at 1% at the start of the primary speaks to the dysfunction within the party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=36)