# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/701 "2016-12-27T21:11:13Z")
Marshmallow wrote: “That the only other viable candidate was an independent socialist who was polling at 1% at the start of the primary speaks to the dysfunction within the party.” And the fact that the Republicans had, at one point, fifteen or sixteen candidates speaks to the dysfunction within theirs. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/702 "2016-12-27T22:58:12Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > What makes her more qualified than GHWB, McCain, Gore, or Kerry? > > That Hillary is reflexively hated by half of America was a common concern in lefty discussion, going back to before the 2008 primaries. The common defense was that her negatives were “baked in” and anyone who hated her wouldn’t vote for a Democrat, anyway. > > To the extent that a good politician must be popular the fact that Hillary is a bad politician is tautological. Perhaps this wouldn’t apply to Hillary in a platonic America, where reason and cool logic prevails, but running her in real America was always courting disaster. That the only other viable candidate was an independent socialist who was polling at 1% at the start of the primary speaks to the dysfunction within the party. You can discuss how hillary is hated all you want before an election. But you don’t know how it plays until the vote, (and if she wins then it is a tautology that the effect was “overstated”) which she won most of, popularly. You have not made a case that this is not hindsight. You don’t even have a case that she was “hated by half of America.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/703 "2016-12-27T23:01:42Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Marshmallow wrote: “That the only other viable candidate was an independent socialist who was polling at 1% at the start of the primary speaks to the dysfunction within the party.” > > And the fact that the Republicans had, at one point, fifteen or sixteen candidates speaks to the dysfunction within theirs. You left out: and that donald beat all of them. If republicans don’t support the donald now, like some kind of stockholm victims, they appear to be cuckholded morons. Better to hold the line, and deny deny deny. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/704 "2016-12-27T23:15:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have it figured out. Trump won because hillary lost. Its that fucking simple. > > Hillary lost because she was a weak candidate to begin with then she ran a shitty campaign. > > . I might agree that Hillary lost in part because of “Hillary hatred.” But you can’t seem to find any irony in the fact that you are doing that yourself. You can look at yourself for the reasons. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/705 "2016-12-27T23:37:02Z")
Hillary lost because of the Electoral College. In absolute numbers, she won, in spite of being hated. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/706 "2016-12-28T00:00:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Gore was a sincere smart man who ran against an ignorant liar and lost in part because of the lying accusation that he claimed to have invented the Internet. > > Kerry was a Vietnam War hero who ran against a war malingerer and lost mainly because of the lie that Kerry, not Bush, was the malingerer. > > Clinton is a sincere statesman with a Foundation to advance commendable worldwide causes who ran against an ignorant buffoon/scamster whose own Foundation is a scam. She lost due to lies. > > _ **Lies, lies, lies.** _ The lies were promulgated by the mainstream media. Right-wing dolts complain that the mainstream media has a liberal basis — we centrists and rational thinkers only _wish_ that were true! Centrists typically don’t say things like this. I’m not sure why you would try to represent one. Clinton was getting a certain bad treatment from the press that I never made sense of, her speech I already quoted from is an example. [Here](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-transcript-clinton-s-full-remarks-as-1473549076-htmlstory.html) is a transcript of her remarks; [here is the NYT showcasing her remarks as they saw fit,](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables.html?_r=0) note that they’ve even rearranged the order of the remarks in their accompanying video. Trumps remarks were also slanted, repackaged, embellished, whatever, I read all manner of wrong things about him this year as if the raw story wasn’t good enough. Media coverage in general is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/707 "2016-12-28T00:03:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have it figured out. …you are a cocky son-of-a-bitch aren’t you? You haven’t got jack shit figured out. > [@](#): > > Trump won because hillary lost. Its that fucking simple. It isn’t that fucking simple. Trump beat Clinton. And Cruz. And Kasich. And Rubio. And Carlson. And Bush. And Paul. And Christie. And Huckabee. And Fiorina. And Gilmore. And Santorum. > [@](#): > > Hillary lost because she was a weak candidate to begin with then she ran a shitty campaign. Hillary won the Democratic Primary: the process that the Democrats use to determine who they think would be the best person to be President of the United States of America. Bernie lost in the Primary. He couldn’t beat this weak candidate because he ran a shitty campaign. > [@](#): > > Trump won the Republican primary because he threw away the dog whistle and picked up a megaphone and the Republican base came out for him. Trump picked up a megaphone and the other candidates all suddenly just lost. Aha. Well thank you for your scintillating analysis. I can’t say I’m any wiser for it: and it is apparent you haven’t really thought about this very much. I guess its because you are still angry with Hillary. > [@](#): > > In most years this would have been general election suicide but not this year because he was running against Hillary. He beat everybody who ran against him: not just Hillary. > [@](#): > > cite? A cite for my fucking opinion? > [@](#): > > Because i can cite a few polls that showed bernie doing better than hillary in a one on one against Trump. And I can cite a whole lot of polls that show that Bernie lost to Hillary. And I can show you a whole lot of polls that show that Hillary could beat Trump in a landslide. I didn’t hear you six months ago bleating that “all the polls were wrong.” Are these cites you are going to provide: do they look like this? [New Pre-Election Poll Suggests Bernie Sanders Could Have Trounced Donald Trump | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/2016-election-poll-bernie-sanders-trump_us_58260f7ee4b0c4b63b0c6928)? “Although the Gravis poll did not show state-level results, it is safe to assume that any candidate with that type of lead in the popular vote, if the poll is accurate, would win the electoral college handily.” Because that poll didn’t prove jack shit. And the Huffington Post is fucking wrong. Clinton won the popular vote. Maybe Bernie would have won the popular vote as well. But the popular vote doesn’t matter. So by all means cite away. > [@](#): > > What do you have? Are you relying on instinct? And what the ever-loving fuck is it that you are relying on? > [@](#): > > He won the primary because he was running in a field with 17 candidates and you can win states with 20% of the vote. You can get 20% of the vote in a Republican primary by saying nigger in your stump speech three or four time, or in Trumps case talk about how illegal Mexicans are rapists and murderers and registering the muslims. By the end, it was too late to save the Republican party from the frankenstein they had created. Now who is the one making excuses for the losers now? Why do these 17 candidates get your benefit of the doubt but Hillary doesn’t? Why can’t you just say they lost because they were “shitty candidates and because they ran shitty campaigns?” > [@](#): > > He beat Hillary because she sucked. Is this your subjective opinion, or do you have some sort of objective measure you are using? If the latter, can you provide it? Objectively how did Hillary suck more than Bernie? > [@](#): > > I am fully aware that hillary lost. I am trying to fight the ignorance of the ready for Hillary crowd who refuse to acknowledge that hillary lost. They blame shit like the russian mafia fer crissakes. I just did search of this thread for mentions of the mafia. There are 2 mentions of mafia: and you made both of them. I’ve searched google news and I can’t find anything seemingly relevant. I’ve gone and read the “Clusterfuck in the Making” thread and I see that you are the first person to bring up the Russian Mafia. dasmoocher bought up the Russian mob in a “parody” post. But you took the mafia idea and ran with it. So you are obsessed with the Russian Mafia. I get that. But unless someone brings it up in this thread can you leave it alone for crissakes? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/708 "2016-12-29T23:13:01Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > …Do you people SERIOUSLY think \*\*all \*\*the President did and \*\*all \*\*he plans to do is tell the Russians to “cut it out”? :rolleyes: I’ll repeat what I said in another thread, “Does anyone else besides me remember when covert activities used to be _covert_?” [Like I said.](https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/12/obama-announces-russia-sanctions/511862/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlantic+%28The+Atlantic+-+Master+Feed%29) > [@](#): > > President Obama announced sanctions Thursday on Russian intelligence officials and organizations he said were involved in efforts to undermine the U.S. elections. In a statement, he said 35 Russian intelligence officials in the U.S. were being expelled and two Russian compounds, one in Maryland and the other in New York, were being closed. The measures are the first public steps the Obama administration has taken against what the U.S. intelligence community believes is Russia’s hacking of the Democratic National Committee and other organizations in the run-up to the election in November. > > “These actions are not the sum total of our response to Russia’s aggressive activities,” Obama said. “We will continue to take a variety of actions at a time and place of our choosing, some of which will not be publicized.” > > In an executive order, Obama imposed sanctions on Igor Orobov, the head of GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency; and three of his deputies: Vladimir Alexseyev, Sergey Gizunov, and Igor Kostyukov. Sanctions were also imposed against Aleksey Belan and Evgeniy Bogachev, two hackers who already were on the FBI’s list of ten most-wanted cyber criminals. The entities sanctioned include the GRU, the FSB, which is Russia’s internal security service, and three entities that are believed to be fronts for Russian intelligence: the Moscow-based Autonomous Noncommercial Organization Professional Association of Designers of Data Processing Systems (ANO PO KSI) and Zorsecurity, and St. Petersburg-based Special Technology Center. Trump’s comments on the President’s action: > [@](#): > > Asked Wednesday in Florida about the reports of imminent new U.S. sanctions on Russia, Trump replied: “I think we ought to get on with our lives. I think that computers have complicated lives very greatly. The whole age of computer has made it where nobody knows exactly what is going on. We have speed, we have a lot of other things, but I’m not sure we have the kind, the security we need.” “_Computers have complicated lives very greatly_…” Are you KIDDING me? :smack: “_The whole age of computer…_”-- WTF is that? _"…nobody knows exactly what is going on_"? Holy crap, this man is so fucking ignorant-- it would be ludicrous if he weren’t about to become the President of the United States. And he is completely unaware of his own stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/709 "2016-12-30T05:22:52Z")
All the “Sanders would have beaten Trump” claims ignore one simple fact. That by the time the republican propaganda machine was done with Bernie, folks would have thought he was Joseph Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/710 "2017-01-03T14:47:50Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > That you _don’t_ think the media coverage was tilted against Hillary Clinton -and appear to think that would necessarily mean ‘tilted in favor of’ whoever she was running against- shows that you’re not worth listening to as a political analyst. Are you serious? You think the media was tilted against Hillary? How so? Were they not calling trump a lying idiot hard enough? There was something in the paper almost daily about how Trump was a liar or said something horrible, were they in the bag for Trump because they were giving him free press about these things he said? So now Hillary lost because of the media (that was feeding her debate questions, leaking access Hollywood video, having a field day parodying Trump, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/711 "2017-01-03T15:02:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you serious? You think the media was tilted against Hillary? How so? Were they not calling trump a lying idiot hard enough? There was something in the paper almost daily about how Trump was a liar or said something horrible, were they in the bag for Trump because they were giving him free press about these things he said? Correct. If the media didn’t cover Trump’s idiocy, that’s a cover up and they are in the bag for Trump. If the media did cover Trump’s idiocy, then they are giving him free publicity because they are in the bag for Trump. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/712 "2017-01-03T15:11:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You are irrational at this point. I’ll admit to being mad but I think its pretty objective reality that Hillary was a poor candidate. > [@](#): > > Trump got away with behaviors that would have sunk any democratic candidate, and it happened over and over again. In that respect the whole media was complicit. There were also many fox hosts that provided him with air time and cover and support, and they would “explain” him so that people could still go on supporting him after each gaffe. In fact trumpsplaining became the main enterprise of the media as a whole for a year. That’s the way the media works. They make things make sense every day no matter what the fuck happens. What universe are you in? The one where pretty much every major news station outlet other than fox was almost flat out calling Trump a racist, misogynist and liar. > [@](#): > > This OP is not about racism. Go back and read it. "and truly believe whites are superior to all races. " Its only part of the OP so I overstated the OP’s focus on racism. The focus on racism is sprinkled throughout this thread. > [@](#): > > You are making very small points with your teaspoon while there are buckets of information coming at you from everywhere that you are ignoring. This is why you appear to be in the tank somehow. Your inability to acknowledge that Hillary was the primary cause of her own demise and the implication that Trump was some sort of political juggernaut, a candidate of destiny is what makes you seem detached from reality. > [@](#): > > The idea that anyone should shut up and go back to a corner for four years right now, when we are going to have pres donald, is stupid, risible and irresponsible. After the Republicans drove the economy into the ditch in 2008, did you feel like they deserved a seat at the table? Did you feel like we should give them he keys to the car again? No, right? They should go into a corner and shut the fuck up and let the rest of us try and clean up their mess, right? Well, the same principle applies to the “ready for Hillary” crowd that handed us this Trump victory. > [@](#): > > It could only be said by someone who at some level wants donald to be unchecked and unlimited as president. Yeah right. I’m not the one that let him win, Hillary is. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/713 "2017-01-03T15:22:00Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You can discuss how hillary is hated all you want before an election. But you don’t know how it plays until the vote, (and if she wins then it is a tautology that the effect was “overstated”) which she won most of, popularly. You have not made a case that this is not hindsight. You don’t even have a case that she was “hated by half of America.” Of course nothing is certain about what if scenarios but… Hillary could have won against Donald, there is NOTHING inevitable or invincible about Trump. She was thiiiis close in half a dozen states. Her negatives weren’t so bad that se couldn’t overcome them. But she ran a horrible campaign, she ran up huge leads in places like California and New York and lost by paper thin margins in most of the swing states. That’s almost a textbook scenario for a horribly run campaign. If her negatives had not been so negative, she wouldn’t have had to make up so much ground from being so unpopular. OTOH, if she was running against someone like Romney or Kasich, she probably wouldn’t have been able to cover the spread even with a campaign run with average levels of competence. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/714 "2017-01-03T15:28:20Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I might agree that Hillary lost in part because of “Hillary hatred.” But you can’t seem to find any irony in the fact that you are doing that yourself. You can look at yourself for the reasons. I voted for her in the general. I was on board with her inevitable nomination well before the DNC convention. The notion that any part of her loss is anyone’s fault but her own because I’m not in lurv with her is retarded. She didn’t have my full throated support because she didn’t earn it, she got my vote because the alternative was Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/715 "2017-01-03T15:30:26Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Hillary lost because of the Electoral College. In absolute numbers, she won, in spite of being hated. Someone really ought to have told her how the electoral college worked before she started running for President. Running up huge leads in places like California and New York is not the way to win elections. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/716 "2017-01-03T18:19:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ll admit to being mad but I think its pretty objective reality that Hillary was a poor candidate. > > The one where pretty much every major news station outlet other than fox was almost flat out calling Trump a racist, misogynist and liar. > > "and truly believe whites are superior to all races. " > > Its only part of the OP so I overstated the OP’s focus on racism. The focus on racism is sprinkled throughout this thread. > > Your inability to acknowledge that Hillary was the primary cause of her own demise and the implication that Trump was some sort of political juggernaut, a candidate of destiny is what makes you seem detached from reality. > > After the Republicans drove the economy into the ditch in 2008, did you feel like they deserved a seat at the table? Did you feel like we should give them he keys to the car again? No, right? They should go into a corner and shut the fuck up and let the rest of us try and clean up their mess, right? > > Well, the same principle applies to the “ready for Hillary” crowd that handed us this Trump victory. > > Yeah right. I’m not the one that let him win, Hillary is. You are the one making a case for hillary clinton as the anti-christ candidate, the be all and end all of political analysis. The alpha and omega of 2016. How realistic are you being? You just sound butt hurt because you were told by “someone” that hillary would win and are being disappointed in an outcome for the first time in your life. There is no such thing as bad publicity: Ever hear that? You are making a case that the media hurt donald. Look at the results again and listen to the voices out there. I have 4 relatives I know of who voted for trump. If a guy can be elected with that much baggage and you want to pillory one person for that you are delusional. We have some sea changes in this country that you are too busy being disappointed to notice. Yes, you are part of the problem. You said: “After the Republicans drove the economy into the ditch in 2008, did you feel like they deserved a seat at the table? Did you feel like we should give them he keys to the car again? No, right? They should go into a corner and shut the fuck up and let the rest of us try and clean up their mess, right?” What does this even mean? You’re comparing a disappointing democratic primary process to a president who trashed the country and economy? And you’re just sitting in the bathtub waiting for it to happen again, under freakin republicans again, no less? Are you like some kind of goldfish where you just have a new blank slate every thirty seconds? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/717 "2017-01-03T18:57:57Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It isn’t that fucking simple. Trump beat Clinton. And Cruz. And Kasich. And Rubio. And Carlson. And Bush. And Paul. And Christie. And Huckabee. And Fiorina. And Gilmore. And Santorum. So, in your estimation, Hillary wasn’t a weak candidate, Trump was just a very strong one? Come on, pull the other one. Trump won the Republican primary because there were over a dozen candidates and you can probably get 20% of the Republican primary vote by saying nigger three times at every stump speech. In a field of 16, 20% makes you the front runner. Perhaps you didn’t know this because you aren’t from here but the media was in almost unanimous agreement that Trump’s total support was capped at around 30 or 40% during the primary (of course they could have been wrong) but by the time the other candidates stopped splitting the vote, it was too fucking late. > [@](#): > > Hillary won the Democratic Primary: the process that the Democrats use to determine who they think would be the best person to be President of the United States of America. Bernie lost in the Primary. He couldn’t beat this weak candidate because he ran a shitty campaign. Bernie couldn’t beat Hillary because he is a nobody and he still gave Hillary a run for her money. Enough so that she felt the need to cheat (see Debbi Wasserman Schultz and Democratic national Committee email leak; see Donna Brazile feeding her debate questions). Hillary was nominated because she won the money primary early on by sucking up to the plutocrats and boxed out all the other potential candidates. She was also a huge name and she sucked all the oxygen out of the room. > [@](#): > > Trump picked up a megaphone and the other candidates all suddenly just lost. > > Aha. Well thank you for your scintillating analysis. I can’t say I’m any wiser for it: and it is apparent you haven’t really thought about this very much. I guess its because you are still angry with Hillary. I admit to being angry with Hillary. She delivered a Trump presidency to us, if she delivered Trump as your head of state, you’d be angry too. > [@](#): > > He beat everybody who ran against him: not just Hillary. So… what now? Trump was invincible Maybe. I have a lot of trouble with that concept. I think its one of those extraordinary claims that people keep saying requires extraordinary proof. > [@](#): > > A cite for my fucking opinion? Oh, it was an opinion. OK, you have any basis for that opinion? Or are you going to say that the fact that she won the primary means that she was a batter match against Trump than Bernie? The reason I ask is because every fucking poll right up until the Democratic national Convention had Bernie beating Trump by larger margins than Hillary. We have since learned that Polls can be wrong but its all we have to go on. > [@](#): > > And I can cite a whole lot of polls that show that Bernie lost to Hillary. And I can show you a whole lot of polls that show that Hillary could beat Trump in a landslide. I didn’t hear you six months ago bleating that “all the polls were wrong.” All those same pollsters were saying that Bernie beats Trump by larger margins than Hillary. Are these cites you are going to provide: do they look like this? [New Pre-Election Poll Suggests Bernie Sanders Could Have Trounced Donald Trump | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/2016-election-poll-bernie-sanders-trump_us_58260f7ee4b0c4b63b0c6928)? “Although the Gravis poll did not show state-level results, it is safe to assume that any candidate with that type of lead in the popular vote, if the poll is accurate, would win the electoral college handily.” Because that poll didn’t prove jack shit. And the Huffington Post is fucking wrong. Clinton won the popular vote. Maybe Bernie would have won the popular vote as well. But the popular vote doesn’t matter. So by all means cite away. [/quote] So you don’t think there is any significance to the fact that Bernie polled better than Hillary? We can just ignore polls from now on, they are meaningless? Hillary was winning in practically all the swing states by more than the margin of error in many case and she couldn’t pull off the win because she spent all her time running up huge leads (and raising tons of cash) in places like California. > [@](#): > > And what the ever-loving fuck is it that you are relying on? Statistically significant polling samples. > [@](#): > > Now who is the one making excuses for the losers now? Why do these 17 candidates get your benefit of the doubt but Hillary doesn’t? Because I saw what happened during the primaries. Everybody did. Trump appealed to bigots, racists and xenophobes and cornered the market on about 20% of the Republican base. In an 18 man field. That was enough to make him the front runner for months on end until people started dropping out. > [@](#): > > Why can’t you just say they lost because they were “shitty candidates and because they ran shitty campaigns?” I think most of the Republicans are shitty candidates. But what killed them was that this field of mainstream Republi9cans were splitting the vote and ceding the batshit crazy vote to Trump and in a field of 18 candidates, that was enough to give him a plurality in primary after primary. > [@](#): > > Is this your subjective opinion, or do you have some sort of objective measure you are using? If the latter, can you provide it? Objectively how did Hillary suck more than Bernie? Well its a qualitative statement so its subjective but the reason I think Hillary sucks more than Bernie is because Bernie did not cheat did not pander to the plutocrats, did not have issues with pubic trust and did not cause the sort of revulsion that Hillary did from a pretty big chunk of the country. > [@](#): > > I just did search of this thread for mentions of the mafia. There are 2 mentions of mafia: and you made both of them. I’ve searched google news and I can’t find anything seemingly relevant. I’ve gone and read the “Clusterfuck in the Making” thread and I see that you are the first person to bring up the Russian Mafia. dasmoocher bought up the Russian mob in a “parody” post. But you took the mafia idea and ran with it. This is the first post that I respond to the notion that the Russian mafia might be involved: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19868032&postcount=251](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19868032&postcount=251) I did not respond to Dasmoocher’s parody post. I responded to Drad Dog’s response to Dasmoocher’s parody post. Dasmoocher responded to my reaction to Drad Dog taking the parody seriously. That’s how fucking distorted the argument had become. > [@](#): > > So you are obsessed with the Russian Mafia. I get that. But unless someone brings it up in this thread can you leave it alone for crissakes? Its just an example of how far people on YOUR side of the argument are willing to go to make your arguments. The fucking Russian mob is going to blackmail Trump into doing their bidding because he owes them money. :rolleyes: If one side of the argument is relying on conspiracy theory to justify their position and the other side sounds really mad about Hillary’s suckage allowing Trump to become the next POTUS, might I suggest that one side of the argument is more rational than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/718 "2017-01-03T19:06:39Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > All the “Sanders would have beaten Trump” claims ignore one simple fact. That by the time the republican propaganda machine was done with Bernie, folks would have thought he was Joseph Stalin. And which Hillary voters would he have lost? Perhaps he would have picked up some Jill Stein voters (like all of them). I’m pretty sure he would have picked up some working class white voters too. He was bashing NAFTA before it was cool. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/719 "2017-01-03T19:19:33Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > That you _don’t_ think the media coverage was tilted against Hillary Clinton -and appear to think that would necessarily mean ‘tilted in favor of’ whoever she was running against- shows that you’re not worth listening to as a political analyst. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you serious? You think the media was tilted against Hillary? How so? Were they not calling trump a lying idiot hard enough? There was something in the paper almost daily about how Trump was a liar or said something horrible, were they in the bag for Trump because they were giving him free press about these things he said? Thanks for proving my point about your analytical prowess. Once again: That you believe a political press bias _against_ HRC means a necessary tilt _in favor of_ anyone else reveals you as a dunce. Since it’s useless to try and shut you the fuck up with rational argument, I recommend that rational and informed posters skip your myriad posts. There is both more entertaining blather and more persuasive contrarianism easily available. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/720 "2017-01-03T19:22:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And which Hillary voters would he have lost? And that there is pretty much the only voters that bernie would have gotten that hillary didn’t. People that voted for hillary in the primary would have had no problem voting for bernie in the general. I think he would have lost quite a bit of the middle. As a socialist, he’s not exactly mainstream. I know a number of conservative people that voted for hillary that would not have voted for the “commie”. The fact that people that voted for bernie in the primary chose to support trump rather than vote for hillary is a large part of why she lost. In fact, if everyone who voted for bernie in the primary had turned out for hillary in the general, she would have won handily. So, what you are trying to state here, is that hillary supporters were more responsible than bernie supporters? Now, I get it, you really don’t like hillary. You feel that she betrayed you by not winning. You feel the democrats betrayed you by “allowing” her to win the primary. You feel that other posters here are betraying you by not jumping on your bandwagon and blaming everything on hillary. Tell ya what. We won’t run hillary again in 2020, and in return, you start helping to ensure that democrats have a better chance in 2018 and in 2020, cause all this complaining about hillary isn’t helping anything at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=37)