# "Is it that the Dems don't understand white, working-class America?" No, that's not it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291 "2016-11-28T16:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/121 "2016-11-30T11:54:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > … It matters not a jot that millions of Democrats stayed at home. … It mattered a lot. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/122 "2016-11-30T12:39:35Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Did you bother to read the links, you cretin? Trump won by a small margin. That small margin would have been easily overturned if the previous Obama voters had voted for Clinton. It matters not a jot that millions of Democrats stayed at home. They are beside the point I was making. The few that came out and voted for Trump were enough to hand him the victory. Doesn’t it make more sense, numbers-wise, to go after the ten million rather than the few hundred thousand? Especially since those millions are from groups that are young and/or growing in population? If the Dems managed to make even a few percent of them into loyal voters, they’d be set for years. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/123 "2016-11-30T13:11:26Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It mattered a lot. I am in a charitable vein and will assume that you did not read my previous posts with attention. Allow me to reiterate. I am speaking of the Obama voters who voted for Trump and swung the election for him. Those who stayed at home are not germane to the point I am making. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/124 "2016-11-30T13:20:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Did you bother to read the links, you cretin? Ooh, I’m a goddamn cretin. Let me kill myself now. > [@](#): > > Trump won by a small margin. That small margin would have been easily overturned if the previous Obama voters had voted for Clinton. It matters not a jot that millions of Democrats stayed at home. They are beside the point I was making. The few that came out and voted for Trump were enough to hand him the victory. Your point was that Trump won because loads of Obama voters went to him instead of Clinton, and then you went on to assert that wooing back these fairweather friends is essential if the party is to ever win again. Your conclusion is rubbish. If all the Obama voters who flipped for Trump had gone to Hillary, she still probably would’ve lost if the nonvoter numbers stayed the same in swing states. It is much more essential (and also more feasible) that Dems fight low voter turnout (and the factors that cause it…like voter suppression) than spend money and time chasing after voters silly enough to think Trump is a logical successor to Obama. I can’t access your waPo cites right now, but your other cites are more of the same data-deficient opinion pieces about white rural voters that are challenged by the OP’s article and the Forbes piece I cited. The figure I’ve heard is that about 7% of Trump voters had previously voted for Obama. That sounds like a good amount, but I doubt it was 7% across the board. Trump did not perform significantly better than Romney in MI and WI. So if that 7% largely comes from states that went blue or always go red, then they don’t matter a “jot”. > [@](#): > > Some of you jokers are astonishing. Secure in the ruff of your opinions clothed you blithely ignore obvious truths and tilt triumphantly at windmills. Still, long may you do so, it makes for fine entertainment. Rotflmao. Pot. Kettle. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/125 "2016-11-30T14:03:10Z")
To address the OP directly, a negative, pessimistic portrait could be painted about any community in America. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/126 "2016-11-30T14:03:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Ooh, I’m a goddamn cretin. Let me kill myself now. Far be it from me to stand in your way. As for your other points it’s clear that you deem your own opinion as superior to cites. I myself could ask for cites to back up those opinions but this is the Pit and I’m quite happy to leave you in your ivory tower. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/127 "2016-11-30T14:18:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I feel fine with faulting them – racism has a far, far more terrible and damaging history in America than dishonesty (which is an American political tradition and pretty close to the norm). Tolerating Trump’s bigotry is a lot worse than tolerating Clinton’s dishonesty (especially when Trump was demonstrably as dishonest, or more so). Sure, and there are people on the other side of this who honestly don’t give a flip- they live in 95% white towns and counties and just don’t get it. To them, it seems equally absurd to vote for someone who would do demonstrable harm to their communities through free trade, etc… just because they want to do right by some group of people who lives somewhere else and who they don’t know. And not coincidentally, who they see on TV in the context of criminal behavior outside of entertainment-related programming. Not prioritizing the fight against racism doesn’t necessarily make one racist. It may just mean that they have bigger fish to fry in their minds, which is what I suspect the case may have been for a great many people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/128 "2016-11-30T14:21:38Z")
That’s a great point and explains why so many women and minorities voted for Trump. American racism can be very bad but is no longer an existential threat to most people. Even people who are victims of racism might have bigger priorities. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/129 "2016-11-30T14:28:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, and there are people on the other side of this who honestly don’t give a flip- they live in 95% white towns and counties and just don’t get it. To them, it seems equally absurd to vote for someone who would do demonstrable harm to their communities through free trade, etc… just because they want to do right by some group of people who lives somewhere else and who they don’t know. And not coincidentally, who they see on TV in the context of criminal behavior outside of entertainment-related programming. > > Not prioritizing the fight against racism doesn’t necessarily make one racist. It may just mean that they have bigger fish to fry in their minds, which is what I suspect the case may have been for a great many people. I agree, and I am faulting people who think this way. Tolerating bigotry helps bigots and hurts America, far worse than tolerating anything Hillary did/does. Those people are wrong and I am calling them wrong. As for strategy, I think the Democrats already know the winning one – have inspiring and charismatic candidates. They win, and usually they win big. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/130 "2016-11-30T14:29:48Z")
It’s not that easy though, and even when they did have inspiring candidates they’ve always run by conceding some issues to bigots or even advocating bigotry themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/131 "2016-11-30T15:12:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The bigots were outvoted. But I didn’t talk just about bigots – I also mentioned those tolerant of bigotry. Many of those folks weren’t bigots themselves, and may have voted for Obama (since he was a far superior candidate), but they also weren’t concerned about the bigotry of Trump and his supporters (or valued opposing bigotry as less important than opposing HRC), and voted for him. So because they didn’t disqualify Trump for his bigotry, that makes it their fault? Did you disqualify Hillary because of her corruption? no? Then, had she won, would we say that she won because of those tolerant of corruption? I know a few Trump voters and they were very concerned about his bigotry but they found Hillary more distasteful that thinly veiled bigotry. You act like bigotry is something that is new on the menu for Republicans. Republicans have had to get accustomed to bigotry since the southern Democrats became Republicans. > [@](#): > > Tolerance of bigotry is probably as big a problem (and far more common) than actual bigotry. Perhaps but that tolerance is baked in. It was not a variable during the election. Who we nominated was. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/132 "2016-11-30T15:25:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I know a few Trump voters and they were very concerned about his bigotry but they found Hillary more distasteful that thinly veiled bigotry. That’s what I’m saying as well; I know people who have literally bitched about the Clintons for 20 some-odd years. If they’ve had that personal animosity toward the two of them for that long, merely being a thinly veiled racist isn’t enough to get them to vote FOR Hillary. I suspect however, that had it been an Obama/Trump race, they’d have voted Obama with no compunction whatsoever. A lot of people are making the mistake of thinking that bigotry/racism in a political candidate is the ne plus ultra, A#1 sin of an elected official, and that anyone who disagrees is wrong. What I’m saying is that in a lot of people’s minds, it’s a sin for sure, but not necessarily the highest in the pantheon of electoral sins. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/133 "2016-11-30T15:30:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense; it caters to them and coddles them. But since all they can accept is the utter submission or annihilation of everyone not exactly like themselves, that isn’t enough. I couldn’t disagree more. Conservative views get moderated more frequently than liberal ones. Conservative views get dogpiled by the liberal masses. Liberal infractions are frequently ignored until they draw an infraction from a conservative, then “all sides” get moderated as if the blame is evenly divided. Conservative idiots are called out almost immediately. Liberal idiots fly under the radar until they get really bad. You probably dobn’t notice this because you only ever take liberal positions but I have noticed that my [positions are scrutinized much more carefully when I take a conservative position than when I take a liberal one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/134 "2016-11-30T15:34:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So because they didn’t disqualify Trump for his bigotry, that makes it their fault? Absolutely – at least they share the blame. Compared to Hillary, or any likely Democrat, Trump absolutely should have been disqualified for his bigotry, which is far, far worse a sin than anything Hillary has done. > [@](#): > > Did you disqualify Hillary because of her corruption? no? Then, had she won, would we say that she won because of those tolerant of corruption? > > I know a few Trump voters and they were very concerned about his bigotry but they found Hillary more distasteful that thinly veiled bigotry. Those people are wrong and should be criticized. This sort of tolerance of bigotry is bad and hurts America. > [@](#): > > You act like bigotry is something that is new on the menu for Republicans. Republicans have had to get accustomed to bigotry since the southern Democrats became Republicans. Bigotry in general isn’t new at all. But many of the things Trump said and did are new in recent decades of presidential politics. > [@](#): > > Perhaps but that tolerance is baked in. It was not a variable during the election. Who we nominated was. I’m not sure why you’re so insistent that 100% of the blame goes to Hillary, and no one else shares any blame at all. I agree that she bears a big chunk of the blame, but so do bigots and those tolerant of bigotry. It turns out the country is more bigoted and more tolerant of bigotry than I thought, and than Hillary thought. We should have known better, and we’re partially to blame for that. But those bigots, and those tolerant or apathetic about bigotry, are also to blame for having an attitude that is harmful to America. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/135 "2016-11-30T15:35:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s what I’m saying as well; I know people who have literally bitched about the Clintons for 20 some-odd years. If they’ve had that personal animosity toward the two of them for that long, merely being a thinly veiled racist isn’t enough to get them to vote FOR Hillary. > > I suspect however, that had it been an Obama/Trump race, they’d have voted Obama with no compunction whatsoever. > > A lot of people are making the mistake of thinking that bigotry/racism in a political candidate is the ne plus ultra, A#1 sin of an elected official, and that anyone who disagrees is wrong. What I’m saying is that in a lot of people’s minds, it’s a sin for sure, but not necessarily the highest in the pantheon of electoral sins. It really depends on their options. I think they would have voted for Biden (and he’s nobody’s dream candidate) or Rendell (and he’s a bit of an idiot) or any one of a dozen other candidates. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/136 "2016-11-30T15:42:27Z")
> [@bump](#): > > A lot of people are making the mistake of thinking that bigotry/racism in a political candidate is the ne plus ultra, A#1 sin of an elected official, and that anyone who disagrees is wrong. What I’m saying is that in a lot of people’s minds, it’s a sin for sure, but not necessarily the highest in the pantheon of electoral sins. I agree – it should be a “#1 sin”, but it turns out it’s not. We (some of us, anyway) underestimated the tolerance and apathy towards bigotry in the American people. But we shouldn’t refrain from criticizing this attitude just because a lot of people might be offended – tolerance and apathy for bigotry isn’t okay, and should be strongly criticized and challenged. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/137 "2016-11-30T15:46:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You probably dobn’t notice this because you only ever take liberal positions … Liberal positions? **Der Trihs**? You have to be kidding. He is so far to the left of liberalism as to make Stalinism seem moderate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/138 "2016-11-30T15:49:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree – it should be a “#1 sin”, but it turns out it’s not. We (some of us, anyway) underestimated the tolerance and apathy towards bigotry in the American people. > > But we shouldn’t refrain from criticizing this attitude just because a lot of people might be offended – tolerance and apathy for bigotry isn’t okay, and should be strongly criticized and challenged. You don’t even mean that, otherwise you would have backed a candidate in the 2008 primary who was in favor of gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/139 "2016-11-30T15:51:26Z")
At least we ended up with Donald Trump, and not someone corrupt. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291/140 "2016-11-30T15:52:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You don’t even mean that, otherwise you would have backed a candidate in the 2008 primary who was in favor of gay marriage. Well, yes, if he was a single issue voter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-that-the-dems-dont-understand-white-working-class-america-no-thats-not-it/773291.md?page=8)