Is it there any logical argument to be a meat eater, but offended by hunting?

[SteveG1]

@Czarcasm

What other animals besides man kills for fun, if their environment is safe and they are sufficiently fed?

House cats. Watch one some time, if it gets a mouse or a bird.

[Lust4Life]

What about killing vermin ?

Foxes are fluffy and cute but they’re also vermin that kills amongst other things chickens, cats and song birds.

[FE3O4ENAIL]

I don’t know if it was having fun but we had a litter of kittens , born in the barn, that were killed by a tomcat. Torn apart, not eaten.
I was told it was a way to get rid of rivals ( or their offspring).

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Scylla

In fact, I would argue that it is more ethical to hunt and harvest a wild animal than to buy one prepared in the grocery store: Take a steer, raised in a barn and then brought to a feed lot and force fed and given antibiotics because it’s eating food that it has not evolved to eat that is damaging it, living under filthy conditions, knee deep in manure with eye infections and what have you. They time the stay on the feedlot pretty carefully. Any longer and it will likely die. Then of course it dies in blind terror at a slaughterhouse. A chicken’s life is even worse.

Compare that to a deer, or a wild boar or a turkey that lived its life naturally in the wild up until the moment it encountered a predator who killed it. It’s a much better life.

Hunting conserves land and helps manage wild populations responsibly. If you are a responsible hunter, paying for his license your contributing to that effort. When you a steak at the grocery store, no portion of that money goes to conserving game lands or ensuring the sustainability of wild species. When you buy a hunting license, it does.

Scylla, it doesn’t seem particularly reasonable to me to compare the worst and most unpleasant forms of commercial animal raising against responsible, good hunters. I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with your overall point, but I think it loses something in the skew.

So far as your point about risking getting “sick” as a result of trying to avoid suffering a paradox? I mean, if you’re counselling us to avoid this mental and physical sickness, isn’t that an aversion to it in and of itself?

[SmartAleq]

@Czarcasm

@Der_Trihs

Dogs, cats.

Dogs? Dogs may kill because of territorial issues or fear, or because they have been trained to do so, but I don’t know about well-adjusted dogs killing just for fun. Cats? If a cat is hunting mice and/or rats, is is most probably an instinctual thing-a bit of instinctual memory that hasn’t been bread out yet. I’ve seen a tame cat catch a mouse, then hold it down, wondering what the hell she’s supposed to do with it.

Yes, dogs definitely. Possums, squirrels, gophers, moles, birds, bunnies, rats, mice, shrews and occasionally snakes and lizards. The only dog I’ve had who’d actually eat what she caught was the Malemute, but she refused to eat moles and shrews and snakes. The other dogs just play with them a bit, disappointed that they no longer run away, then leave them on the back porch.

I have no problem with skillful hunters, but the ones who gutshoot or otherwise wound deer and just leave them to die need staking out on an anthill. Fuckers. Same with those goddamned trophy hunters who go out to ranches to “hunt” animals that have been raised to be shot by stupid motherfuckers–it’s a wonder they don’t just stake the poor things out to make it even easier for the idiots to shoot them.

[gonzomax]

@shiftless

Do we have to fire any slaughterhouse workers who don’t demonstrate a proper dislike for their jobs? Do I have to chew my steak glumly so as not to have fun from the death of an animal?

If you are sitting in a steakhouse enjoying your meal you have no room to complain about people killing animals. Just because you’ve had it done for you by professionals where you can’t see or hear it doesn’t mean that you’ve been kind to that animal. I would claim that throwing way meat is worse than hunting. How is leaving 3/4 of a T-bone on your plate any different than a hunter killing an animal and leaving it by the side of the road?

Hunting, at least in the US, is pretty well regulated and is supposed to prevent exess and cruelty. Of course that’s not always the case but it’s not like hunters are just blazing away at anything they want.

Nobody made the claim that eating meat was being kind to animals.
There is a humane feeling one can get from not doing the deed of killing an animal. You forgo that when when you go off to the woods and shoot an animal that will not hurt you.

[Peremensoe]

This discussion usually arises among people who have not personally experienced either of the things they’re talking about. If you’ve seen both, odds are you’ll find hunting rather more palatable.

@Revenant_Threshold

Scylla, it doesn’t seem particularly reasonable to me to compare the worst and most unpleasant forms of commercial animal raising against responsible, good hunters.

But the “worst and most unpleasant” methods of livestock meat production are the standard now. Unless you go to some lengths to seek out better alternatives, that is where your grocery store meat comes from.

Hunting is one of those better alternatives.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@gonzomax

Nobody made the claim that eating meat was being kind to animals.
There is a humane feeling one can get from not doing the deed of killing an animal. You forgo that when when you go off to the woods and shoot an animal that will not hurt you.

I’m pretty sure that the chicken whose carcass was part of my breakfast this morning would never have set out to hurt me.