# Is it time for a new US national anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849 "2007-02-04T23:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sonia\_Montdore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Sonia\_Montdore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonia_Montdore)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/1 "2007-02-04T23:37:48Z")
The Superbowl is on tv and I’m sitting here listening to poor Billy Joel struggling to sing _The Star Spangled Banner._ He’s trying manfully, bless him, but he’s losing the struggle. Let’s face it, Americans, our national anthem is un-sing-able. It’s time to change it. What do you think the new one should be? _God Bless America_ is out of the running. It’s not in the public domain yet. Irving Berlin’s heirs hold the copyright, with the royalties going to the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America. Anyway, the agnostics and atheists would protest. Then there’s _America the Beautful_. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can’t find) that points out that the repetition of the word “for” is silly and the meaning unclear. “For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves” _For, for for, for_ … What’s up with that? Then there’s Woody Guthrie’s _This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land_ but I think it, too, is still under copyright. What’s left? ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/2 "2007-02-04T23:39:33Z")
I vote for America the Beautiful. It’s not about fighting and it’s easy to sing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/3 "2007-02-04T23:49:28Z")
Given the way so many singers roll all over the chromatic map of the USA anthem on long notes, it pretty much becomes a new tune every time it is sung. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/4 "2007-02-05T00:39:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sonia Montdore] Then there’s _America the Beautful_. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can’t find) that points out that the repetition of the word “for” is silly and the meaning unclear. “For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves” _For, for for, for_ … What’s up with that? [/QUOTE] I don’t think the lyrics are lacking at all. I don’t quite understand the “for” construction, but I’ll let it slide under poetic license. Besides that, the words are great! And how about everybody’s favorite verse: - America! America! God mend thine ev’ry flaw; Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!\* That modicum of humility is welcome. On the downside, it does have numerous references to God, which might be problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/5 "2007-02-05T00:43:28Z")
On a more modern note, how about _New World Man_? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/6 "2007-02-05T01:07:05Z")
This debate is paralleled in Australia, and I have strong feelings on it. _Advance Australia Fair_ is a rather turgid, dull anthem that belongs in high schools and sporting events. On the other hand, _Waltzing Matilda_ is the one that will bring a tear if I’m overseas and I hear it. But does that mean _Waltzing Matilda_ should be our anthem? Hell NO! The national anthem is SUPPOSED to be dull. _America the Beautiful_ is really, really lovely too. It’s your _Waltzing Matilda_. The American people own it, so don’t sell it to The Man. Don’t let the government dilute it with dull officialdom. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/7 "2007-02-05T01:50:48Z")
It’s “ **O** beautiful for spacious skies.” It’s saying that America is beautiful because it has spacious skies, etc. It shouldn’t take a Canadian to tell you this. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/8 "2007-02-05T01:56:15Z")
I say stick with the Star-Spangled Banner. For a better appreciation of it, read Asimov’s article [http://www.purewatergazette.net/asimov.htm](http://www.purewatergazette.net/asimov.htm). And he was a dyed-in-the-wool liberal. [QUOTE=Rodgers01] And how about everybody’s favorite verse: - America! America! God mend thine ev’ry flaw; Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!\* That modicum of humility is welcome. [/QUOTE] The rest of the song is an idealized vision of what American can become. To me, that last line isn’t humble, but it’s like a schoolmarm wagging her finger at unruly students. So it’s my least favorite part of the song. It sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb. Not that self-control is bad. It’s good, of course. But I can’t recall it being recommended for individuals recently. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/9 "2007-02-05T02:28:40Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] It’s “ **O** beautiful for spacious skies.” It’s saying that America is beautiful because it has spacious skies, etc. It shouldn’t take a Canadian to tell you this. 😛 [/QUOTE] I know what it means, and I know it’s “O” (didn’t notice the typo in the OP), I just don’t understand the logic of the phrasing. If I saw a beautiful woman, I wouldn’t comment on her beauty by saying “O beautiful, for lucious lips, for nice figure, for pretty face…etc.” But I can accept that it’s an archaic and/or poetic sentence structure. [QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] The rest of the song is an idealized vision of what American can become. To me, that last line isn’t humble, but it’s like a schoolmarm wagging her finger at unruly students. So it’s my least favorite part of the song. It sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb. [/QUOTE] I don’t get that sense at all, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/10 "2007-02-05T02:57:18Z")
> [@Sonia Montdore](#): > > Then there’s Woody Guthrie’s This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land but I think it, too, is still under copyright. Nope: > [@WG in the '30s](#): > > “This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin’ it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do.” Not even close to copyrighted. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/11 "2007-02-05T03:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sonia Montdore] The Superbowl is on tv and I’m sitting here listening to poor Billy Joel struggling to sing _The Star Spangled Banner._ He’s trying manfully, bless him, but he’s losing the struggle. Let’s face it, Americans, our national anthem is un-sing-able. It’s time to change it. What do you think the new one should be? [/QUOTE] Billy Joel is how old? 137? If you want to hear the anthem sung right maybe they shouldn’t have hauled Grandpa out of the nursing home to sing it. By now, Billy Joel would have problems remembering which of his pills he’s supposed to take in the morning. I can sing “The Star Spangled Banner” and I’m not even American. Honestly, it’s not hard to sing if you can sing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/12 "2007-02-05T03:38:57Z")
Billy Joel is 57, as a casual glance at Wikipedia reveals. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/13 "2007-02-05T03:50:58Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Nope: > [@WG](#): > > “This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin’ it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do.” Not even close to copyrighted. [/QUOTE] Woody may have said that, but according to the U.S. Copyright Office, the work is under copyright: > [@U.S. Copyright Office](#): > > 1. Registration Number: RE-201-665 > Title: This land is your land. Words and music: Woody Guthrie [i.e. Woodrow > Wilson Guthrie] > Claimant: Arlo Guthrie, Joady Guthrie and Nora Rontante (C) > Effective Registration Date: 23Jan84 > Original Registration Date: 30Mar56; > Original Registration Number: EU432559. > Original Class: E Even your quote indicates that Guthrie copyrighted the work; he just was willing to allow others to sing it (not record it). At the time he was quoted, ASCAP didn’t cover folk music, so he wasn’t going to get any payment for performances, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/14 "2007-02-05T03:54:47Z")
Yeah, he copyrighted it in the '30s, for 28 years, so the copyright expired a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/15 "2007-02-05T03:58:11Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] I can sing “The Star Spangled Banner” and I’m not even American. Honestly, it’s not hard to sing if you can sing at all. [/QUOTE] It’s got an octave and a fifth range – not tough for anyone you’d want to invite to sing before a sporting event, but tough enough for your average non-singer. In other words, it’s not something large masses of regular people can easily sing, which is a bad sign for a national anthem. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/16 "2007-02-05T04:03:14Z")
Well, there’s always _America_ (aka _My Country Tis of Thee_). According to Wikipedia, it was written in 1831, so it’s gotta be out of copyright. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/17 "2007-02-05T04:05:15Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society. And another vote for _My Country Tis Of Thee_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/18 "2007-02-05T04:09:28Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] Well, there’s always _America_ (aka _My Country Tis of Thee_). According to Wikipedia, it was written in 1831, so it’s gotta be out of copyright. [/QUOTE] The problem with that would be that when the orchestra begins to play it at the Olympics, the Americans and British would both stand… ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/19 "2007-02-05T04:13:02Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The problem with that would be that when the orchestra begins to play it at the Olympics, the Americans and British would both stand… [/QUOTE] We just need to convince the Brits to change their anthem to the Benny Hill theme. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/20 "2007-02-05T04:13:50Z")
It can’t be _America the Beautiful_; that would ruin _The Westing Game_. I kind of like the fact that only screech owls can handle _The Star Spangled Banner_. Its imagery is vaguely bellicose, and that appeals to me. I don’t mind having an anthem that no one can really sing well, because when someone does manage it, I get chills. In comparison, _My Country 'Tis of Thee_ is a schoolchild’s verse. No emotion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849.md?page=2)