# Is it time for a new US national anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849 "2007-02-04T23:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/21 "2007-02-05T04:25:02Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] We just need to convince the Brits to change their anthem to the Benny Hill theme. [/QUOTE] I thought it already was. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/22 "2007-02-05T04:26:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sonia Montdore] Then there’s _America the Beautful_. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can’t find) that points out that the repetition of the word “for” is silly and the meaning unclear. “For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves” _For, for for, for_ … What’s up with that? [/QUOTE] It’s “_O_ beautiful _for_ spacious skies,” In other words - it’s talking about the ways the country is beautiful. Skies, pretty. Grain, pretty. Mountains, pretty. Plain, pretty. Whole country, just beautiful. My favorite is the final verse - dreaming about seeing “thine alabaster cities gleam, undimmed by human tears.” It makes me cry. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/23 "2007-02-05T05:04:28Z")
Since this is the Straight Dope, you must be familiar with the origins of the melody of the “Star Spangled Banner” right? > **[John Stafford Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith)** > > John Stafford Smith (bapt. 30 March 1750 – 21 September 1836) was a British composer, church organist, and early musicologist. He was one of the first serious collectors of manuscripts of works by Johann Sebastian Bach. > Smith is best known for writing the music for "The Anacreontic Song", which became the tune for the American patriotic song "The Star-Spangled Banner" following the War of 1812, and in 1931 was adopted as the national anthem of the United States. > Smith was baptised in Glouces... Yep, originally a drinking song and written by a British citizen. Not exactly the 150% American tune everyone seems to think it is. Also, I think Francis Scott Key’s lyrics are horrendous in trying to match up to the tune. A lot of words have to be squeezed or stretched to make it fit the melody. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/24 "2007-02-05T05:42:16Z")
Re: copyright status of _This Land is Your Land_ In 2004, the publisher of said song sued JibJab Media over an online cartoon satirizing the election to the tune of the song. The Electronic Freedom Foundation [discovered](http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2004_08.php) a 1945 self-published songbook by Woody Guthrie which contained the song. Since Guthrie failed to renew the copyright on this songbook in 1973\*, the song is in the public domain. (However, Guthrie eventually modified the lyrics, so that version is probably still copyrighted. The original 1945 version appears in a PDF file which is linked to in the link above). \*Until 1976, copyrights lasted for 28 years, followed by an optional additional 28 years at the choice of the copyright holder. Copyrights now last for 70 years after the death of the original author (for works published by an individual), or 95 years from date of first publication (for works for hire). ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/25 "2007-02-05T05:49:58Z")
As for the anthem, I have no qualms with the current one, but if it were to be changed, I would suggest _The Stars and Stripes Forever_. (Yes, it has lyrics- Sousa wrote them himself). But not the verse part, just the chorus. The verse is a little bit America uber alles, claiming the American flag is the best ever for the best country ever, but the chorus describes the flag as a symbol of American pride: _Hurrah for the flag of the free! May she wave as our standard forever. The gem of the land and the sea, The banner of the right. Let despots remember the day That their fathers, with mighty endeavor, Proclaimed as they marched to the fray That by their right and by their might it waves forever!_ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/26 "2007-02-05T13:03:30Z")
[QUOTE=wolf\_meister] Since this is the Straight Dope, you must be familiar with the origins of the melody of the “Star Spangled Banner” right? > **[John Stafford Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith)** > > John Stafford Smith (bapt. 30 March 1750 – 21 September 1836) was an English composer, church organist, and early musicologist. He was one of the first serious collectors of manuscripts of works by Johann Sebastian Bach and a friend of his son Johann Christian Bach. Smith is best known for writing the music for "The Anacreontic Song", which became the tune for the American patriotic song "The Star-Spangled Banner" following the War of 1812, and in 1931 was adopted as the national anthem of the ... Yep, originally a drinking song and written by a British citizen. Not exactly the 150% American tune everyone seems to think it is. Also, I think Francis Scott Key’s lyrics are horrendous in trying to match up to the tune. A lot of words have to be squeezed or stretched to make it fit the melody. [/QUOTE] While not everyone could relate precisely what British drinking song supplied the tune for “The Star-Spangled Banner”, I think it’s common knowledge by now that the tune did indeed come from an one. I like the melody. I like the lyrics. It’s a perfectly cromulent anthem. Only pacifists & Commies want to change it. So there! 😛 Otherwise, I’d go for “America the Beautiful” BECAUSE of all the offensive God-references on one hand AND the partnership choice of the lady who authored it on the other. ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/27 "2007-02-05T14:53:00Z")
Why not go with _Jerusalem_ or _Land of Hope and Glory_? 🙂 Or maybe write a completely new one instead? In this case, I hope they’ll follow Terry Pratchett’s advice and include a second verse that goes: _Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!_ _Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!_ _Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!_ _Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!_ ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/28 "2007-02-05T15:03:02Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] On a more modern note, how about _New World Man_? [/QUOTE] But…they’re Canadian!! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/29 "2007-02-05T15:04:07Z")
_New world Man_ says a lot about Americans. > [@](#): > > He’s got to make his own mistakes > And learn to mend the mess he makes > He’s old enough to know what’s right > But young enough not to choose it > He’s noble enough to win the world > But weak enough to lose it - [http://lyricwiki.org/Rush:New\_World\_Man](http://lyricwiki.org/Rush:New_World_Man) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/30 "2007-02-05T15:26:33Z")
I dunno, if we HAVE to change it, I vote for either “Yellow Rose of Texas” or “Bohemian Rhapsody” I mean, comon, it’d be totally worth it to have 80,000 people in a stadium all start headbanging in unison before every football game. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DurbBook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DurbBook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DurbBook)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/31 "2007-02-05T15:48:48Z")
Would it bother the singing public when they found out that the lyrics to “America the Beautiful” were written by Katharine Lee Bates, a (gasp!) lesbian? ---
**Author:** ![DurbBook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DurbBook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DurbBook)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/32 "2007-02-05T15:52:39Z")
Sorry about repeating info from FriarTed’s post. I was just too excited about the topic. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/33 "2007-02-05T16:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And another vote for _My Country Tis Of Thee_. [/QUOTE] You mean the one that sounds a lot like _[God Save The Queen](http://memory.loc.gov/cocoon/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200000012/default.html)_, and the one whose tune is (or was) the national anthem of 6 other countries? Good choice. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/34 "2007-02-05T16:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] But not the verse part, just the chorus. The verse is a little bit America uber alles, claiming the American flag is the best ever for the best country ever, but the chorus describes the flag as a symbol of American pride: [/QUOTE] Yeah, but if you can’t be belicose and jingoistic in your anthem, when can you be? But how about “Hail, Columbia”? > [@](#): > > Hail Columbia, happy land! > Hail, ye heroes, heav’n-born band, > Who fought and bled in freedom’s cause, > Who fought and bled in freedom’s cause, > And when the storm of war was gone > Enjoy’d the peace your valor won. > Let independence be our boast, > Ever mindful what it cost; > Ever grateful for the prize, > Let its altar reach the skies. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/35 "2007-02-05T16:47:17Z")
Re: OP. No. In addition to the very good reasons pointed out by the late Isaac Asimov, the tune is fantastic and lifting and memorable. It can be played stirringly by marching bands, orchestras, and even rock musicians. What makes it hard to sing for some gives it a certain _drama_ when played instrumentally. [QUOTE=Musicat] You mean the one that sounds a lot like _[God Save The Queen](http://memory.loc.gov/cocoon/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200000012/default.html)_, and the one whose tune is (or was) the national anthem of 6 other countries? Good choice. [/QUOTE] Of all the possible bad choices for a replacement, using anything set to the tune of “God Save the Queen” is the worst. IOW, I completely agree with Musicat. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/36 "2007-02-05T16:58:52Z")
I’m partial to “The Maine Stein Song.” If played by a marching band, it would really sound like a national anthem. Easy to sing, too! All it needs are some new lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/37 "2007-02-05T17:02:40Z")
[QUOTE=Millit the Frail] But…they’re Canadian!! [/QUOTE] Not only that, but just imagine a whole stadium full of people trying to hit those Geddy Lee high notes! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/38 "2007-02-05T19:03:35Z")
We should replace it with something that sounds like [Kazakhstan’s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mrovBMhAlo) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/39 "2007-02-05T19:27:25Z")
My vote is, stick with the Star-Spangled Banner. Sorry, but purple mountains fruiting all over the plains just doesn’t stir the soul the way that “the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there” does. Once long ago, before the days when we became accustomed to complaining about our government from a position of complete safety, there was a war. A _real_ war, right here. Brave men stood fast. A line was held. And because of that, a star-spangled banner continues to wave o’er the land of the free and the home of the brave. That deserves to be remembered. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849/40 "2007-02-05T19:29:39Z")
I’ve written a nominee. Sung to the tune of “Shave and a Haircut:” _Pres-i-dent has ve-to Pow-er_ Short, easy to sing, and a civics lesson. Plus almost anyone could write new verses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-a-new-us-national-anthem/390849.md?page=3)