# Is it time for Democrats to finally stand up against Obama before 2016 chances are gone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 23, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417 "2014-11-23T18:18:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/121 "2014-11-27T04:04:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I fully agree. So now is when conservatives have to show they are capable of compromise and cooperation and, by extension, good government. Conservatives have shown they can get elected. Now they have to show if they can run the country. The next two years will be a referendum on the Republican majority in Congress. Hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/122 "2014-11-27T04:05:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sez who? If is is too complicated to walk and chew gum at the same time, take a step, chew, take another step, chew, so on and so forth. > > What they clearly should have done is cut taxes. Recession? Cut taxes. Depression? Cut taxes, but especially for the job creators. Neuritis, neuralgia, the heartbreak of psoriasis? Oh, you better \*believe \*that’s a tax cutting! You don’t know the meaning of heartbreak, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/123 "2014-11-27T12:54:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You can still lose it. Then what will you have accomplished? That would be bad. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/124 "2014-11-28T09:45:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m quite surprised there hasn’t been more backlash by Democrats against Obama. He’s cost them a lot in the past two elections. Disclaimer: I am Canadian and don’t have a dog in this fight. Having said that, I followed the midterms. And as I recall, there was no contest. There never was a contest. Those seats that were up for grabs this time around were either solid red or purple enough that it didn’t matter. Get out the vote didn’t matter. Obama appearing with candidates didn’t matter. Obama staying away didn’t matter. The math never worked in favor of the Democrats, regardless of what they did. So why the backlash on Obama? It was never up to him and there was nothing he could have done that would have changed the outcome. Now as I understand it, the situation reverses in 2016. A lot of seats are up for grabs in areas that are solid blue. The Republicans, regardless of charismatic candidates or issues of the day, do not have a chance to take these seats. Will they also suffer a backlash for failing to do the mathematically impossible? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/125 "2014-11-28T11:40:00Z")
It’s not exactly like that. The Republcans also won in many blue states. In 2016, if the Republicans lose say, 1 or 2 seats, that can be written off as just an unlucky map. No excuse for losing the 4 that mean Senate control. That only happens when you screw up. As a general rule, a seat you can win is a seat you can win again. The Democrats lost 8 seats because they screwed up, not because the map was against them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/126 "2014-11-28T16:12:18Z")
And you know this how? You say its not because the math was against them, which implicitly acknowledges that the map \*was \*against them, but then offhandedly assert that this was not why. Did it have no bearing at all, or have you some reason to believe it was inconsequential? Perhaps you will share the reasoning behind that bald statement? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/127 "2014-11-28T17:04:37Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Yeah, the GOP “won” the war on selling ACA. > > But that spells out all that is wrong with American politics. > > It’s a game, a war, and there was absolutely no integrity at all in the way the GOP behaved. > > They sold blatant and egregarious untruths, they lied, they were dishonest, and they were more interested in “hurting” Obama than in getting good law. > > Is that really something to be proud of? The Obama WH and the DNC counted on Gruber-izing (aka bullshitting) more and more supporters for the passage of ACA/Obamacare . Gruber, Obama, and the DNC counted on stupid voters acting stupidly and on their well established avoidance of questioning Obama’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/128 "2014-11-28T17:19:22Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Disclaimer: I am Canadian and don’t have a dog in this fight. > > Having said that, I followed the midterms. And as I recall, there was no contest. There never was a contest. Those seats that were up for grabs this time around were either solid red or purple enough that it didn’t matter. Get out the vote didn’t matter. Obama appearing with candidates didn’t matter. Obama staying away didn’t matter. The math never worked in favor of the Democrats, regardless of what they did. So why the backlash on Obama? It was never up to him and there was nothing he could have done that would have changed the outcome. (post shortened and underline added) Of course there was a contest. After the contest was over, Democrats lost seats and Republicans and Tea Party gained seats. Democrats could NOT turn out the vote because many of their former supporters were no longer buying what the Democrats were selling. President Obama has an extremely poor record of getting fellow Democrats elected. Obama can get Obama elected but his words and actions seem to turn out more opposition voters. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/129 "2014-11-28T17:20:19Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Having said that, I followed the midterms. And as I recall, there was no contest. There never was a contest. Those seats that were up for grabs this time around were either solid red or purple enough that it didn’t matter. Get out the vote didn’t matter. Obama appearing with candidates didn’t matter. Obama staying away didn’t matter. The math never worked in favor of the Democrats, regardless of what they did. So why the backlash on Obama? It was never up to him and there was nothing he could have done that would have changed the outcome. So how did those Democrats in solid red states win in the first place? The math precluded their winning, according to your logic. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/130 "2014-11-28T22:11:25Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > So how did those Democrats in solid red states win in the first place? The math precluded their winning, according to your logic. I don’t know how they got in. Random chance? Voter discontent? Obama appeared and/or stayed away? But that’s not the point. The point was that they had no chance to hold those seats. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have tried. I just don’t think they need to flagellate themselves too viciously over a contest that wasn’t really a contest. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/131 "2014-11-28T23:59:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republcans also won in many blue states. Which many blue states did the Republicans win Senate seats in? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/132 "2014-11-29T00:57:10Z")
I’m referring to governors’ races, which are also statewide. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/133 "2014-11-29T01:19:02Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I don’t know how they got in. \*\*Random chance? \*\*Voter discontent? Obama appeared and/or stayed away? But that’s not the point. The point was that they had no chance to hold those seats. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have tried. I just don’t think they need to flagellate themselves too viciously over a contest that wasn’t really a contest. The Democrats’ big win in 2006 was much more than random chance. A 9-seat Senate swing (assuming Landrieu loses) in 2014 is much more than random chance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/134 "2014-11-29T03:20:55Z")
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the Republicans also won again in Maine by a huge margin. There’s no reason Mark Pryor or Kay Hagan couldn’t have done that. It’s actually not hard at all for incumbents to represent their constituents well. Losing so many incumbents means they were selling out to the DC leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/135 "2014-11-29T05:10:51Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > And I envision you whining like a petulant child after your party got spanked. Oh wait, that one is based on reality! > > There was no alternative. The Democrats sealed their fate in 2010 when they passed Obamacare. All the Republicans have done since then is consistently voice strong opposition to that bill, and it worked. It worked in the 2010 midterms, and again in the 2014 midterms. The Republicans didn’t even need to offer an alternative. That’s how damaging the passing of the ACA was to the Democratic party. So what you’re saying is that to avoid being defeated, what Democrats needed to do was, essentially, to become Republicans. In that case, why bother to have elections at all? It would be so much easier in a one-party state to solve societal problems by simply declaring them not to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/136 "2014-11-29T05:17:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a reasonable argument for doing health care reform, and there were other reasonable arguments made for why health care reform was part of fighting the recession. Mostly made by rather intelligent bloggers and discussion board posters. And therein lies the problem. > > The administration and Democrats in Congress made almost no attempt to sell what they were doing. Instead, they attempted to rush it through, got stopped cold, and then started defending against Republican attacks on the bill rather than making an affirmative defense of it. They never even came close to telling Americans why 2009 was the appropriate time to do health care reform. As events proved, there really wasn’t time. If the bill hadn’t been ready for a legislative vote by late 2010, it never would have passed. I don’t know to what extent it was anticipated at the time, but in hindsight there’s no question that Obama and his party had only that two-year window in which to get this done. HUGE concessions were made to stakeholders in the established private-enterprise insurance based system, and still the outrage was sufficient to start the Tea Party boiling. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/137 "2014-11-29T05:24:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Honest question for some of the staunch Obama defenders here: > > If the Republicans win it all in 2016, will you finally admit that at least politically, his administration was a total failure? Sure, even I appreciate some of his accomplishments. But in the wider context, the voters seem to be moving against him in a big way. Not at all. It remains my personal privilege to believe that those who vote Republican usually do so against their own interests, and ultimately against those of the country. Elections have consequences, but winning doesn’t always make one right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/138 "2014-11-29T05:42:53Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > As events proved, there really wasn’t time. If the bill hadn’t been ready for a legislative vote by late 2010, it never would have passed. I don’t know to what extent it was anticipated at the time, but in hindsight there’s no question that Obama and his party had only that two-year window in which to get this done. > > . The party only got a two year window because they failed to do the job they were elected to do, instead going after long cherished Democratic dreams. So now you wait another 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/139 "2014-11-29T09:40:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m referring to governors’ races, which are also statewide. No, you aren’t. Below is where I got the quote. In what way is this about governors? Do you ever stop and think for even one second about what you’re typing? > [@adaher](#): > > It’s not exactly like that. The Republcans also won in many blue states. In 2016, if the Republicans lose say, 1 or 2 seats, that can be written off as just an unlucky map. No excuse for losing the 4 that mean Senate control. That only happens when you screw up. > > As a general rule, a seat you can win is a seat you can win again. The Democrats lost 8 seats because they screwed up, not because the map was against them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2014, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417/140 "2014-11-29T10:46:03Z")
Fine. They won Maine by a landslide, despite that not being possible according to his argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-democrats-to-finally-stand-up-against-obama-before-2016-chances-are-gone/705417.md?page=8)