# Is It Time For the Senate to Go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354 "2012-01-04T06:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/21 "2012-01-05T01:01:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The US is a huge country with a diverse population. One size does not fit all. That makes little sense as an argument; how does giving disproportionate power to small states do anything but put a squeeze on diversity and move us closer to a “one size fits all” situation? It creates a semi-oligarchy where small populations can push around large ones because of where they live. Would it be a good thing if, say, white people or left handed people got two votes instead of one? Should the vote of me and my fellow Californians count twice because we are Just That Awesome? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/22 "2012-01-05T01:43:35Z")
[hijack] Why does any **state** need a two-house legislature, anyway? Everybody but Nebraska has got two houses, but why? [/hj] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/23 "2012-01-05T01:49:51Z")
No, Chancellor Palpatine. Congress in general is a disgrace right now, but I think it’s a smart idea to have separate houses with slightly different compositions and different interests, not to mention different electoral cycles. And eally: stop and think about what the government would look like if it was just the presidency and the House of Representatives. How much would be getting done? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/24 "2012-01-05T01:59:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, Chancellor Palpatine. You beat me to the joke, dammit!:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/25 "2012-01-05T02:01:01Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > You beat me to the joke, dammit!:mad: The hate is swelling in you now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/26 "2012-01-05T02:44:44Z")
> [@Oliveritaly](#): > > Isn’t this what Diocletian did? And that didn’t turn out so well fella! Divide the Empire up into a Tetrarchy? I’m not seeing the parallel. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/27 "2012-01-05T03:13:47Z")
PPACA would have passed with a public option? Then the T.E.A. Party would have swept in and completely defunded it? And SOPA would be law right now, but really, it’s a Senatorial hold stopping that, not the Constitution itself. Yeah, I say take the risk, even though it’s my ox getting gored. Better to change course a little too fast than much too slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/28 "2012-01-05T03:18:51Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yeah, I say take the risk, even though it’s my ox getting gored. Better to change course a little too fast than much too slowly. The authors of the Constitution had the exact opposite view, which is why the Senate exists. And you forgot to mention that Obama would have been impeached and removed from office earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/29 "2012-01-05T03:19:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, Chancellor Palpatine. Congress in general is a disgrace right now, but I think it’s a smart idea to have separate houses with slightly different compositions and different interests, not to mention different electoral cycles. If it does, then it would be better for the standard to be something less arbitrary, undemocratic and unfair. Such as, say, a second house that represents political organizations according to how many members they have\*; they’d still be dominated by the Republicans & Democrats, but you’d have voices from outside the two party system. So you’d have one house representing the States (House of Representatives), and another representing the national political community but not tied to any particular locale. \*With some minimum size for qualification, otherwise you’d have to seat thousands of people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/30 "2012-01-05T03:25:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If it does, then it would be better for the standard to be something less arbitrary, undemocratic and unfair. I don’t think the idea behind the Senate is arbitrary or unfair. To the extent it’s undemocratic, it’s undemocratic in a good way: it adds an element of deliberation to the political process and removes some of the populist element. > [@](#): > > Such as, say, a second house that represents political organizations according to how many members they have\*; they’d still be dominated by the Republicans & Democrats, but you’d have voices from outside the two party system. As a registered independent, I’m not a fan of this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/31 "2012-01-05T03:34:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think the idea behind the Senate is arbitrary or unfair. To the extent it’s undemocratic, it’s undemocratic in a good way: it adds an element of deliberation to the political process and removes some of the populist element. I don’t see how replacing “populism” with privilege due to geography is an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/32 "2012-01-05T03:50:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t see how replacing “populism” with privilege due to geography is an improvement. Geography is an element in organizing every society. And the House actually has at least one important geographic issue that the Senate doesn’t: you can’t gerrymander Senate districts. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/33 "2012-01-05T03:51:08Z")
I’m a person from a state with a small population. Convince me I should give up what representation I have on the national level in the Senate. I like having a counterbalance in place to population monsters like New York, California and Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/34 "2012-01-05T03:56:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Better to change course a little too fast than much too slowly. Better to change course a little too slowly than much too quickly. The Senate was designed to insulate legislation from the passions of the moment. Doesn’t always work, but it does mostly. I’m open to argument about how the Senate should be constituted, how it should be drawn from the nation, but if you ask me what the single biggest problem with the Senate is, it is that their term is too short. A Senator should serve one ten or twelve year term, with another election allowed after he or she has sat out for a term. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/35 "2012-01-05T04:24:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I think that the OP is missing the historical significance of the Senate. > When the Constitution was drawn up, Senators were never meant to represent YOUR interests - that’s what the House is for. Senators represented their state qua a soveriegn body in a Federalist system. In that respect, the Senate is quite egalitarian in that the sovereign State of Michigan has the same representation as the sovereign State of North Carolina. Bingo. The House of Representatives represents the people, and the Senate represents the states. Thus, in the House, the people of East Podunk, New York should have about as much voice as those of Nowheresville, Nebraska. Similarly, in the Senate, Wyoming has as much voice as California. The US is a federation: the people have a voice in their government, but so do the bodies that make up the federation–the states. The people are heard in the House, and the states are heard in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/36 "2012-01-05T04:27:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And eally: stop and think about what the government would look like if it was just the presidency and the House of Representatives. How much would be getting done? More, I suppose; no need for Senate-House conference committees on legislation. Also makes a presidential veto easier to override. Think about it, a one-house legislature is stronger **as against the executive** than a two-house legislature. Now, think, from which branch of government do most abuses of civil liberties, military adventurism, etc., seem to come lately and for a long time past? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/37 "2012-01-05T05:03:29Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > As a resident of a state with a population of around 750,000, I think the Senate is the only place where we can make our voice heard on the national stage. How much voice should a **unified**.24% have on the national stage? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/38 "2012-01-05T05:05:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And the House actually has at least one important geographic issue that the Senate doesn’t: you can’t gerrymander Senate districts. They are basically permanently pre-gerrymandered. A small state automatically has more power because the rules are rigged to make it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/39 "2012-01-05T05:08:37Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m a person from a state with a small population. Convince me I should give up what representation I have on the national level in the Senate. I like having a counterbalance in place to population monsters like New York, California and Texas. Convince me your vote is more important than many others. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354/40 "2012-01-05T05:19:11Z")
For reference, a resident of Wyoming has 66 times more representation in the Senate than a resident of California. Hows that fair? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-senate-to-go/608354.md?page=3)