# Is it time to ban frats once and for all? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411 "2007-01-10T15:16:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/61 "2007-01-12T19:10:39Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Including our current President and renowned partier, George W. Bush (Delta Kappa Epsilon, Yale). :dubious: [/QUOTE] Martin Luther King, Jr - Alpha Phi Alpha John F Kennedy - Phi Kappa Theta (Lee Harvey Oswald - Angry loner) > **[Vice President for Student Affairs](https://www.utep.edu/student-affairs/)** > > The UTEP Division of Student Affairs not only helps our students excel in the classroom, but also prepares students for a lifetime of success and accomplishment. A National Conference report shows a majority of the 600 NIC fraternity chapters are above the All-Men’s scholastic average. All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men. Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community. A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/62 "2007-01-12T19:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] [Yup.](http://www.rice.edu/)I was an undergrad at Rice University. Incoming freshmen signed a pledge to uphold the honor system and to not join fraternal organizations. If they caught you cheating, or you joined a fraternity, they kicked you out. Simple. [/QUOTE] I am really glad I did not go to a school that made me sign a pledge about what kinds of organizations I could join. This seems amazingly restrictive almost Macarthyesque. Like having people sign forms that they are not communists. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/63 "2007-01-12T20:18:16Z")
I’m no fan of fraternities. Also, the argument that fraternal organizations advance the careers of their members isn’t really a positive thing to me – it smacks of the good old boy network if not outright elitism. However, wouldn’t any attempt to ban them run afoul of [this?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association) Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/64 "2007-01-12T20:21:34Z")
Minor sidetrack for comparison…? How do folks feel about college sports teams? At the school I went to, and was member of a fraternity at, which was an “underground,” as all fraternities/sororities were unsanctioned by the Univeristy, the bad stories always seemed to have come out of some of the sport houses. Football players (the only ones who really ever caused a problem at OUR house), Ruggers (just plain crazy), and the Baseball house. (house in this instance, with the teams were off campus common apartments, or rented houses, not Fraternity Houses.) > [@](#): > > “A 1998 report from the School of Public Health at Harvard indicated that four out of five fraternity and sorority members identify themselves as binge drinkers.” What’s the average among the student population as a whole? Men vs. Women? Sports vs Not? I don’t think that stat provides the whole picture. Finally is it the particular fraternity that turns someone “bad,” or is it that “bad” is attracted to particular fraternities? I don’t see the cause/effect. Without the greek organizations, it will be reduced to smaller groups, which don’t get nearly the press that comes with the live shot outside of the AlphaBetaGamma house. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/65 "2007-01-12T20:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] A National Conference report shows a majority of the 600 NIC fraternity chapters are above the All-Men’s scholastic average. All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men. Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community. A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate. [/QUOTE] If you have documentation of this study or the other statistics you (or others) have cited, the [Center for the Study of the College Fraternity](http://www.indiana.edu/~sao/cscfsite/faqs.htm) at Indiana University would be interested in hearing about it. Their website indicates that such figures are either overstated or nonexistent: \*“Where can I find the source of those great-sounding stats that are always used to promote Greek Life?” Perhaps you have encountered the following statistics in a publication, web site, or speech: Studies show that 76% of our nation’s senators, 71% of the men listed in Who’s Who in America, and 85% of the Fortune 500 Executives are fraternity members. Of the nations 50 largest corporations, fraternity members head 43. All but two U.S. Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men, and 63% of the U.S. President’s cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek. 85% of the U.S. Supreme Court justices since 1910 have been Greek. A U.S. government study shows that 71% of fraternity and sorority members persist to graduation, while just over 50% of all non-Greeks graduate. You will probably not find a citation for the source of the statistics. **In all likelihood, no such studies exist.** \* ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/66 "2007-01-12T21:15:29Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] You will probably not find a citation for the source of the statistics. **In all likelihood, no such studies exist.** \* [/QUOTE] Even the statistic that fraternity and sorority people are 47% more likely to be 39% cooler? [QUOTE=Sailboat] Also, the argument that fraternal organizations advance the careers of their members isn’t really a positive thing to me – it smacks of the good old boy network if not outright elitism. [/QUOTE] Well, fraternities and sororities try to set themselves as elite organizations. If they succeed, then yes, there would be advantages to having a network of other success-minded people. If you have a fraternity full of meatheaded fuck-Os, I don’t think they will be in much position to help each other up the corporate ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/67 "2007-01-14T02:51:38Z")
Am I missing something here? College age students drink to excess because they haven’t learned not to. Fraternities didn’t invent stupid and it won’t go away with their departure. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411/68 "2007-01-15T22:54:04Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] I am really glad I did not go to a school that made me sign a pledge about what kinds of organizations I could join. This seems amazingly restrictive almost Macarthyesque. Like having people sign forms that they are not communists. [/QUOTE] While there are indeed no fraternities or sororities at Rice, I don’t recall signing a pledge not to join one. There is a pledge to uphold the honor system, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-to-ban-frats-once-and-for-all/387411.md?page=3)